Ridazz Roulette!






The Days of Our Ridazz.


NOTE: All timestamps are in the future because WE are in the future. The care takers of Midnight Ridazz.com reserves the right to remove, edit, move or delete anything for any reason. None of the opinions expressed on these boards represent the Midnight Ridazz nor can anyone purport to speak on behalf of Midnight Ridazz.



Topic Box:
 
   1 - 250 of 18636 Topics

PROJECT PHOTO RIDE   12
STREET pLAy   16
Lurkers   4
SINS and SPROCKETS d...   6
I SAW YOU !   839
Coaster Brake Challe...   5
July 2nd-Friday 2014...   7
M.R. 2nd Friday's 2...   114
Missing helmet!   0
I miss MR   45
The Passage of a Few...   489
S K I D Pasadena   0
CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVE...   9
Wolfpack Civic Ctr C...   1
LOS ANGELOPES!   79
Choppercabras 13th a...   14
Velocio   3
ATT: BORFO   7
ONE POST A DAY   103
BMX Tuesday   3
THE DARK CENTURY   120
EDDIEBOYINLA farewel...   10
Atomic Cycles Events...   4
attn Stilline   4
SCUMBAG 2013   38
* THE RIDE WITH NO N...   327
I miss Mandigo   9
Stolen Bike   0
Blackie vs Whitey   45
!-!-!-! PIER PRESSUR...   0
WESTERN RIDAZZ TO RI...   0
CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVE...   31
tagging last night i...   1
River Ride Volunteer...   0
Safari 5.00 $$$   2
Wolfpack Hustle Year...   930
Troops Needed Tonigh...   0
Downey, Bell, Pico, ...   4
New Belgium + Tall B...   9
WESTERN RIDAZZ   0
LAPD saved LACM   10
CM Police Brutality   142
THREE WORDS MAX   1531
14th annual river ri...   0
WESTERN RIDAZZ   4
WESTERN RIDAZZ   0
EXCITED!!!!   15
late night rides (sf...   1
KSHTWN VS. MNR   4
the Bay in May   67
Ask Sexy thread 2014   40
********ALEC BALDWIN...   4
Watch Million Dollor...   0
Louis C.K and Seinfe...   0
TaLl BiKe RiDe!!   26
FOTF Question??   14
The Tallest Bikes in...   0
Sun Chaser The Ride ...   3
ATTN: Tarmonster   41
SOCK THE HOME LESS 2...   11
Union Station Party   0
Watch Amazing Spider...   1
Watch Captain Americ...   0
greetings MNR from S...   1
#MYMR   1
Watch The Grand Buda...   0
Watch Amazing Spider...   1
I USED TO BE SKINNY   16
LSD Bicycle Day   3
TAB - Killer drug on...   0
Borfo's rehab steps   18
Watch Brick Mansions...   1
SPECIALIZED TALLBIKE...   8
Midnight ridaz #124   6
ikea hackers kids bi...   1
OCCUPY MR   1
Bicycle Swapmeet 4/6   0
Cubcamp   926
Bicycle Film Festiva...   1
VEGAS!!   83
Bicycles, Coffee, Lo...   3
46 bike frames   0
Ride in 626 area   1
CANNOT SLEEP.   574
I need roommates! Sw...   2
Kushtown in the news   5
March 2nd Friday Rid...   4
Bomb Squad 2014   2
Casting for Bike Ody...   4
Marathon Mamboo   1
SFV CM   144
Salton Sea -- Lost a...   6
12 O clock boys   3
SYSXSW   3
CRUSS MOB 2   85
Nue Poop Thread   26
Salton SARS   0
Rollin 200   1
February 2nd Friday ...   39
Subway Series BMX Ri...   0
HEY ASSHOLES   3
Glitter Herpes   10
Salton Shopping List   68
park double work sta...   0
park double work sta...   0
Whats your favorite ...   11
Just some hippy bull...   7
SHIT!!!!   3
ATTN: ROADBLOCK   39
RIP LEONARD KNIGHT   1
ride to the sea   3
ATTN: John "Osnap" C...   16
End of an Error? LAC...   25
N. FIG LABAC Meeting   2
The meaning of life   6
RAYRAYRAY   133
NELA Critical Mass   13
Raina   6
BOB'S BIG BOY BIKE C...   4
Coaster Brake Challe...   12
58th B-day ride   6
Ridazz Celebrity Loo...   337
mom ridaz spontaneou...   0
Midnight Runnaz   4
El Sonidito   4
sexism   0
41,336,440 Asteroids...   2
Slim calendar   7
41,336,440 Asteroids...   0
Dirty Hipster/I Walk...   9
P Doggin it!!!!Dista...   9
THE RED BALLOON   13
MR HIPSTER OF THE YE...   11
M.R. JAN. 2014   7
I miss mom rida tues...   18
can i borrow yer ext...   1
MoM Ridaz Appreciate...   4
Dear Midnight Jerkof...   13
The Bicycle Tree OC ...   5
CYCLOCROSS   2
BOGOTA COLOMBIA!   1
BICYCLE BITCHEN   425
LOS ANGELOPES VS NYE   2
TT29 NEW YEARS EVE R...   43
Monday night 6 pack   3
Explanations behind ...   1
!-!-!-! PIER PRESSUR...   2
bike rack   0
SantaCON 2013   30
Missing Bicyclists   2
road bike repair que...   8
Cost for ACTR   11
Wolfpack Hustle: The...   245
Bikers Robbed at Gun...   23
Classic Threads   13
Ask Sexy thread   100
MR App/Bike Club App...   9
ACTR 2013   88
Can You Do Me a Favo...   3
TOY RIDE RSVP!!   1
oh my gaaah!!   0
Attn MOM Ridazz   11
MoM Ridaz 4th Annual...   4
I am the Ninja   4
Austin to LA!   7
West Side Mosey   85
ROTW: Jennygirl   7
Y'all invited to NEL...   5
Lost Backpack with G...   0
dazed & confused???   1
knight riders?   0
Midnight Dinazz   5
The Great LA Walk 20...   0
(ICE) SKATE AND DEST...   10
* THE RIDE WITH NO N...   8
TACO TUESDAYS BICYCL...   486
BICYCLE BITCHEN: PT ...   6
2013 M.R. All City T...   31
Anyone else see this...   2
what do you expect o...   18
ATTN: MIDNIGHT RIDAZ...   3
Which are the best w...   8
ATTN: TALLCANS!!   13
MIDNIGHT RIDAZZ #119...   11
pollution   7
Choppercabras 13th A...   26
HAPPY BIRTHDAY PALUC...   8
120 miles in a day ...   0
Help End Cannabis Pr...   0
WALK the Hyperion Br...   6
Essentials for a goo...   6
ANDRES CAN SUKADIK   8
I EAT FART YUM   1
Stolen Foldie Alert   9
Pasadena Mini Bike K...   1
Have You Been Authen...   135
You know if your a M...   50
Dia de los muertos r...   0
Hyperion Bridge Hear...   7
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT   24
ATTN : coldcut   100
rape   6
BOMBAY BEACH CRITICA...   10
M.I.A. PALUCHA   31
palucha!!!   11
palucha are u online...   2
Missing girl-DTLA   12
CALLING BORFO   8
RIDE TO NOWHERE 201...   6
NEW HAUS   1
HUGGS FOR NORMA   8
HAPPY BIRTHDAY CHYNN...   9
JARED LETO   8
LaHarr, HAPPY BIRTHD...   12
LAPD Liaisons   3
Feeder Ride   0
Mucho Bike Cuture   8
HAPPY BIRTHDAY AKTIV...   2
please check my site   0
nd you believe it's ...   1
Escort Service in De...   76
borfo ride   16
LA Green Fest 2013   1
I LOVE FARTING ON CA...   18
Borfo Trips Out In E...   20
Borfo drives cleanes...   20
Paging Reverend Joe ...   6
ATTN BORFO: Don't st...   13
BORFO IS BACK   31
borfo how art thou?   24
down with 'borfo thr...   13
ROTY5 Years running ...   15
FUCKIN BORFO:   15
Borfo   16
You Might Be Borfo i...   12
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YO...   45
fire bike   1
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, ANDR...   5
Stolen CETMA Cargo b...   1
DETROIT IN 2013   45
Macho Bike Culture   92
HIPSTER JOKES   28
2008 MR PUSSIES FOR ...   2
Нас...   0
MR OCT 11 2013 (2nd ...   31
kittens are sooooooo...   13
CicLAvia is seeking ...   29
Im addicted....   10
LA History   52
COACHELLA 2014   9



Thread Box:
BLOOD IN PRESS CONFERENCE
Thread started by Roadblock at 07.21.10 - 11:06 am

judge Elden Fox went out of his way to give the defendant a better sentence than even the plea bargain offered by the prosecution in the Birdman case. The defendant in this case was drunk and turned left and crossed Louis' path and he slammed into the side of the car with such force he broke his legs and jaw and left embedded teeth in her car. But The issue is not the collision as horrifc as that was. The issue is that she made ...the decision to leave the victim in the street for dead. This is NOT about the individuals in this case. This case is merely a drop in the bucket we are coming to learn.

That same decision is made many tImes over by drivers across the city and state. Why would people be so heartless? The reason is as clear as Judge Elden Fox's sentence in the Birdman case. No jail, she can still drive to "work," 90 days community service. Drivers know that it is worth the risk of getting caught for fleeing the scene because the justice system time and again hands drivers light punishments to opportunistic and frankly evil people. People who simply decided that a cyclist is not worthy of their trouble. People who would leave someone to die and or be stuck with huge hospital bills if they live.

Still, this is not about the people who are running, this message isn't some kind of bid to repeal the "slap on the wrists" of the past. This is a plea to the city and state to DO something and provide a solution to the carnage in the streets by providing the proper disincentive to run. Cyclists and pedestrians need more legal protections and we need more vigilant investigation by law enforcement and prosecution by the judicial system. Now.



More about the birdman case here:
http://www.bikesidela.org/mahdavi-and-deliz-sentencing

Are you angry yet?

In response to the seemingly endless slap on the wrist soft on crime approach of our legal system we are staging a BLOOD-in at the Los Angeles county courthouse in Beverly hills.

Let's make a statement beyond good taste. Because this city's legal system is beyond bad taste.


BLOOD IN
We will be holding a press conference and getting all bloodied up for it because people need to SEE with their own eyes what is happening in the streets.

We will be dousing ourselves in movie blood and speaking about the injustice of our legal system which seems to not give a fuck about cyclists' safety.

SPEAKERS:

Anyone who has ever been a victim of

-hit and run
-poor law enforcement treatment after a collision
-poor treatment or slap on the wrist scenario by court system

-Anyone who knows of someone who was killed.

Every single one of you should make a public comment.

I'm looking for make up artists to give us all a good bloody distasteful make over.



WE NEED

-MOVIE BLOOD. either we find a donor or we find out how much we need and how much it costs and take up a collection. We need enough to dump the shit all over ourselves and all over the steps of whatever public building we march on.

-Make-up artists could be pro's could be ourselves. lets make it look real.
-videographers
-bloggers
-press people


The time is now. Aren't you people sick of this shit already?


every time a driver gets a slap on the wrist it misses an opportunity to save lives. ARE YOU NEXT? DO YOU GIVE A FUCK?



L A County Courthouse:
Dept 400, 9355 Burton Way
Beverly Hills, CA 90210-3619

Get Directions
(310) 275-3176


reply


YES!



Graham
07.21.10 - 11:48 am

reply


YES





Roadblock
07.21.10 - 11:50 am

reply


http://www.ehow.com/how_2191800_make-fake-movie-blood.html



Rach Stevo
07.21.10 - 11:53 am

reply


YES!



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Rach Stevo
07.21.10 - 12:01 pm

reply


All we need is a bucket or two, a few big bottles of corn syrup (thank god for farming subsidies, this will be cheap), flour and some food coloring. I'm willing to do some experimenting with the colors beforehand so we know the ratios we need.

We should mix up and decorate ourselves somewhere else then ride up to the courthouse. (Are we going to the courthouse?)

When? (I'm leaving before LACM this month)

Court finishes at 4:30pm, I figure 5-6pm is a good time if we want the court employees (and hopefully the judges) to witness the mayhem.

This was such bullshit. You could tell within 3 sentences of the judge beginning to speak that he wasn't going to do anything. I don't know how he could have spent 2 hours listening to Louis, his family, and friends and then conducted such a farce in his courtroom.



Rach Stevo
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.21.10 - 12:08 pm

reply


AWESOME.

Let's discuss where and when this would be most effective. I was thinking city council... Alex Thompson mentioned that this was a county judge so it probably would be LA city council that we should be speaking to.

it should happen sooner rather than later. perhaps monday or tuesday next week?

spread the word around lets gets more people involved. Lets make a HUGE statement.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Rach Stevo
07.21.10 - 12:16 pm

reply


A county judge would fall under the board of supervisors, which meets on Tuesdays:

http://bos.co.la.ca.us/categories/MeetingsOfBoard.htm



icbx
07.21.10 - 12:49 pm

reply


I'm there.



danceralamode
07.21.10 - 1:13 pm

reply


thank you for this



666
07.21.10 - 1:20 pm

reply


Blood in the streets?

Bike-trailer blood lines.



two wheels good
07.21.10 - 1:24 pm

reply


we need MOAR people



even if you haven't been a victim of any of the above you should be ready to show up for this.

at this point I'm thinking city hall is the best place to go with this, even if it's a county judge. reason being is that there is a relationship between the way the LAPD or Sheriffs hand these case over. Rather than giving the case to the DA to decide to reject it to the CA the cops make that decision. It's the first kernel of bias as the case winds through the bureaucracy...

Since Birdman experienced "great bodily harm" his case became a felony rather than a misdemeanor. City attny handles misdemeanors and The District Attny handles felonies, which this case was and therefore I assume is why a county judge was seeing this versus a municipal traffic court judge.









Roadblock
07.21.10 - 1:29 pm

reply


LACM is in 9 days





trickmilla
07.21.10 - 1:30 pm

reply


im in. I suggest using LACM as a tool in this protest. Handout flyers at the start.



palucha66
07.21.10 - 1:43 pm

reply


Calling all westsiders (and your paintz), eastsiderz (and your "never say die" attitudes), all valley heads (and our resiliency)... Let's have epic funz and splash some paint on ourselves for a good cause (not that F.U.N. isn't a good one). Let's show some support to one of our very own, the Birdman.



July
07.21.10 - 1:50 pm

reply


I think it needs to happen sooner than LACM... the rage will subside within days and everyone will have forgotten about it till the next cyclist gets killed or maimed repeat process...



Roadblock
responding to a comment by palucha66
07.21.10 - 1:57 pm

reply


Agreed, let's do it early next week. Use the weekend to get the details hammered out and then we ride.



Rach Stevo
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.21.10 - 1:59 pm

reply


How about filling a class action law suit against the city for failing to provide safe
roadways for cyclist, and one against the LAPD for failing to follow through on the arrest of hit and run drivers.

There should be enough victims to do this.

When it starts costing the city money there may be some action taken.




Dedicated818
07.21.10 - 2:13 pm

reply


GREAT idea. I would join a suit like that....



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
07.21.10 - 2:19 pm

reply


We could bring in pictures of all the ghost bikes that have been put up in the last couple of years?



buckchin
07.21.10 - 2:21 pm

reply


bring EVERYTHING.

let's bring pictures, ghost bikes, shit lets bring stuffed dummies with bike helmets and lay them on the steps.

Elden Fox is GARBAGE and so is COOLEY and TRUTANICH.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by buckchin
07.21.10 - 2:26 pm

reply


You would just need to find an accident attorney who would be willing to do this
on contingencey / payment on the back end. Or pro bono / no charge



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.21.10 - 2:29 pm

reply


I've already discussed this idea with a couple lawyers. no one seemed to think it was possible to sue the city over this.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
07.21.10 - 2:31 pm

reply


it only takes one lawyer to file a suit. Law suits are filed all the time for nothing
against the city. When does Shotgun get that law degree ?



Dedicated818
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.21.10 - 2:37 pm

reply


haha totally!!

c'mon shotgun get on that shit!



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
07.21.10 - 2:43 pm

reply


Roadblock, when are you thinking about doing this? I will bring my cameras and document the evidence. This needs to be seen by more people than just city council members.



RickDarge
07.21.10 - 2:45 pm

reply


THANK YOU.

I'm not sure when, perhaps on tuesday of next week. I'm still gathering ideas from the community though. right now I'm just fucking pissed off. but this should be coordinated for maximum effect. whoever is down, help me spread the word.

I'll make a facebook page. I dont know, Im just sick of this shit.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by RickDarge
07.21.10 - 2:48 pm

reply


Why not borrow / bring a car and stage an incident, kind of have a person laying in front of car as if they had just been hit. I know it seems a little weird, but it can really highlight what exactly everyone is mad about, since you're thinking of making it a kind of performance art type thing.

just an idea



md2
07.21.10 - 2:53 pm

reply


GREAT idea. find some heap of shit and have it towed to the front of city hall dump red paint all over it and just leave it there. I'm down. if someone can make this happen it would amplify the message.

other than that, to get our message out, I would put out a press release, douse ourselves in blood, walk into city hall chambers and tell them exactly how much the legal system sucks.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by md2
07.21.10 - 3:00 pm

reply


Alex Thompson and others are talking about Tuesday and suggesting the BH courthouse where the hearings took place....





Roadblock
07.21.10 - 3:24 pm

reply


I am so down



RickDarge
07.21.10 - 3:43 pm

reply


count me in...i was in a hit and run (that the cops did nothing about btw) and i know how to make fake blood

@roadblock...i dont go on this webpage so much so please keep posted on the facebook or by email...thanks



TheRaquel
07.21.10 - 4:35 pm

reply


I'm in!! Eveyone that has every had some one they know hit by a reckless driver or just think that rackless drivers should be taken of the streets should go.



defective_tampon
07.21.10 - 5:52 pm

reply


i'm in.



kossy
07.21.10 - 6:32 pm

reply


I'll file too.



danceralamode
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
07.21.10 - 6:35 pm

reply


FUCK YEAH!



godmode
responding to a comment by danceralamode
07.21.10 - 7:36 pm

reply


Work has been beyond crazy for me this week and next week 4sure ....Im vacation, sick and personal time .. but Im willing to get pay docked to attend this ... Im going to send a letter to all the shareholders in my firm tomorrow and make sure they read it ..... Regardless of what is said to me about taking off next tuesday... I will attend ....



OsnapsonJC
07.21.10 - 8:27 pm

reply


Unless the word TERMINATED ... is passed in a response for obvious reasons ....



OsnapsonJC
07.21.10 - 8:28 pm

reply


i haven't been sleeping well since that judge's ruling. the district attorney was pushing hard, as was the family and the sheriff was very supportive. i still can't get my head around the judge's logic that letting an unremorseful criminal like that walk free.

it's time to change the law and change the attitude of the courts. nearly killing someone and running away should mean mandatory jail time.



tortuga_veloce
07.21.10 - 9:45 pm

reply


this sounds awesome to do! you think these judges leave out the front entrance or creep on out the back? or like crawling from under a rock? would be great to get the media there to.



fixie4life
07.21.10 - 9:59 pm

reply


I'm in for photo documentation/blogging. Possibly graphic design if it's needed. Do we have an idea what time of the day it will be?



GarySe7en
07.21.10 - 11:29 pm

reply


Can I suggest that while everyone is bloody in syrup that you also do a DieIn with chalk outlines all over City Chambers sidewalks. Nothing makes more of a statement than seeing chalk outlines of our cyclist citizens on bloody concrete! Maybe write your first names and ages to humanize them? Just a suggestion.
-Boogey



Boogey100Fires
07.22.10 - 12:47 am

reply


Oh and also write what neighborhood you live in. Make city reps pay attention!



Boogey100Fires
07.22.10 - 12:48 am

reply


Tuesday at 5pm at the Los Angeles county courthouse.

This thing is gathering some steam. I was pretty pissed off when I wrote this and I hope I'm not giving the wrong impression of what this is. It's not an angry blood thirsty mob. It's not a riot.

This message is directed at the motoring public, law enforcement and the judicial system. We are going to be overly respectful and we're going to make some focused consice messages for the mainstream media to digest and regurgitate to it's audience.

This isn't about vengeance or trying to repeal the slaps on the wrist of the past. This is about changing the future. Yes we are angry but we are serious as rain.


Bring smashed bikes, wheels, photos, stuffed dummies... We can set up a whole scene.



Roadblock
07.22.10 - 1:36 am

reply


Wow, this touches on a sensitive subject for me... death. I have experienced the death of a very close family member, not cycling, but skiing related, where there was nobody really to blame............. Involvement of BLOOD and allusions of DEATH, makes this something very difficult for me to get involved in.............. :( So much sadness. Sorry, I just needed to say that.............



braydon
07.22.10 - 2:24 am

reply


Let's all drop dead in front of the courthouse at the same time with movie blood in our mouths. Coordinate so that we have a sound bike playing a song, and at the end of the song, we all drop dead with our bikes.

We can then have a chalk outline team give us all chalk outlines on the ground with names and statistics.

Photogs/ RickDarge FTMFW


Also, time tested PROTIP time.

Prepare a simple friendly press release to 4 or 5 major news stations an hour or less beforehand, being sure to state that many other news crews will be present.

Tell them we will give the best interviews to the first crews there and they will show up faster than you could believe.

I am fucking furious in a deep, long burning way about this issue. Let's make this happen in the right way.



TheDude
07.22.10 - 3:10 am

reply


Just wanted to re-bump these points that RoadBlock made.

" We are going to be overly respectful and we're going to make some focused consice messages for the mainstream media"

"This is about changing the future. Yes we are angry but we are serious as rain."



TheDude
07.22.10 - 3:12 am

reply


Los Angeles county courthouse? Or did you mean the Beverly Hill courthouse? Can you post an address so the location is absolutely clear?



Rach Stevo
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.22.10 - 7:37 am

reply


It would be a good idea to have designated people to speak to the media, and all cyclists attending should be aware of this and who they are. Its the best way to have representatives taken seriously. Sometimes reporters seek out the crazys that want to go on camera and yell "government sucks maaaaan!" Not very effective.



Boogey100Fires
07.22.10 - 8:00 am

reply


Yup. The mainstream media is going to take from this and spit out something that makes us look crazy or nuts. Maybe we are nuts for riding these gritty streets.

Let's keep it simple. There will be a schedule of speakers with prepared comments.





Roadblock
responding to a comment by Boogey100Fires
07.22.10 - 9:01 am

reply


wait, Beverly Hills or LA???



Gav
07.22.10 - 9:07 am

reply


On a side note, when I saw this BLOOD IN RIDE posted, I thought to myself "damn, that rides GANGSTA!" I was thinking back to the old movie BLOOD IN, BLOOD OUT. I was like Damn these Midnight Ridazz are Hard Core! Whatcha gotta do to be a member? LOL!



Boogey100Fires
07.22.10 - 9:29 am

reply


Despite meeting none of the criteria (so far) beyond outrage, I'll be there with blood on.

I definitely support non-violent peaceful protest. Designated public speakers (not me!) good. Location clarification helpful -- DTLA or Bev. Hills? Pardon my govt building ignorance, but where is the LA county courthouse?



champagne
07.22.10 - 9:52 am

reply


HEY RICK. WE GOT'A MAKE THIS BIG. IF IT WORKS FOR YOU I WANT'A RIDE TO THE COURT HOUSE WITH YOU.
TARZAN



CAPS MAN
responding to a comment by RickDarge
07.22.10 - 10:43 am

reply


@RB

Only a Southern Californian takes rain seriously.

Serious as rocks. Rocks falling from the sky. Serious as golf ball sized hail. Serious like Vesuvius.



Alex Thompson
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.22.10 - 10:54 am

reply


A car as a prop is pretty unweildy and will be difficult to get to the steps of city hall. But a Prop Car? Perhaps made out of cardboard? Anybody have a refrigerator box?



trickmilla
07.22.10 - 11:26 am

reply


We need to call very clearly for Hit and Run law reform.

Key points:
- Current hit and run laws and lax enforcement encourage drivers to flee.
- Hit and run law is. Designed for car on car
- Hit and run needs to be updated for "vunerable road users
- Penalties for hit and run should be on par or more severe than crimes people are running to avoid getting caught for: ie. Dui, nolic., no insurance, possession of illegal property or substances.
- Hit and run driver should lose licence
- Hit and run law should create an incentive to stay and help vicitm and a srong disincentive not to run.




trickmilla
07.22.10 - 11:38 am

reply


I dig your list, Patrick, so thanks for putting that out there. I think I'm going to put some legal muscle in on moving the ball forward on getting hit and run law reform. It's just absurd.




dudeonabike
responding to a comment by trickmilla
07.22.10 - 12:08 pm

reply


Stay focused on this y'all - no matter what law changes happen, short of putting a minimum sentence on hit and run, it still comes down to Judge Elden S. Fox not taking this seriously. It still comes down to the fact that the DA and the Judge did not think license suspension was important. The DA asked for alcohol counseling, asked that not drinking alcohol be part of the terms of probation, and the Judge included those things. They did not address driving, either of them.

In their eyes it's the alcohol that's the problem, not the driving.

That's bullshit.



Alex Thompson
responding to a comment by dudeonabike
07.22.10 - 12:33 pm

reply


HAHAHAH


this is the Los Angeles County Courthouse in Beverly Hills is this correct Alex?



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
07.22.10 - 12:36 pm

reply


it's really not even the driving... it's the decision to leave that is so completely heartless and criminal.





Roadblock
responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
07.22.10 - 12:38 pm

reply


GREAT key points Patrick thanks for this!



Roadblock
responding to a comment by trickmilla
07.22.10 - 12:38 pm

reply


How about compiling and reading a list of auto vs. bicycle incidents, hit & runs, and the respective penalties (or lack thereof) of the offender?

(ex. this case, Ed Magos, maybe some lower profile cases that didn't get the benefit of press coverage, etc..)

I'll help out. If anyone wants to team up on this, give a shout.



ohaijoe
07.22.10 - 12:48 pm

reply


It's the Beverly Hills Courthouse on 9355 Burton Way. The Beverly Hills Courthouse is part of the LA Superior Court system, so in that sense, it's the LA Courthouse, but one of many including the LAX Courthouse, Santa Monica Courthouse, Metropolitan Courthouse (where your case was) and so on.

So - yeah, that's right. Sorry for the TMI on courts.



Alex Thompson
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.22.10 - 12:49 pm

reply


Hmmm, at first glance this seems like a good idea to bring awareness. But, I wonder if motorists seeing cyclists covered in blood will encourage them to ride bikes?

If I saw that this time last year (before I bought my first bike in my adult life and took up cycling.) I would have been terrified at the idea of commuting by bike.

While this may all seem like fun and games, there is actually something much more powerful at work here; our planet is being destroyed by corrupt companies that stand to profit from our dependence on automobiles and oil. They are willing to kill for this profit, they have already demonstrated this as seen in the gulf and in how they lobby to makes cities car-centric, unfortunately I think that it's not so simple as covering ourselves in fake blood. We need to attract more people to cycling in a peaceful manner.

I think that the bike movement has been on the right track, being non-political and highlighting how much fun cycling is to attract more cyclists. This has attracted cyclists like the Mayor, who was recently hit. His response was not to cover himself in blood or rage at the driver, but to vow to make the city safer for cyclists.



Girl Power
07.22.10 - 12:51 pm

reply


I empathize with the anger over hit and run accidents and the discontent with current hit and run laws. Attention does need to be given to these issues. Our society moves at the pace of gas combustion. The quality of our roads, air, and public transportation is poor. The rat race conditions of the day to day life makes it a challenge to slow down, help others, think clearly, and act with care and genuine responsibility. Laws and systems tempt people to avoid stopping when they strike a cyclist or pedestrian and NOT because the laws are not strict enough.

Hit and run and other cycling hazards is an issue BUT a mobilization and demonstration over these issues should be more focused on humanitarian justice than retribution and traditional law enforcement. Accidents are accidents but they can be prevented or at least reduced. And an eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind. The focus should be awareness, responsibility, care, radical trans-portation/formation, and the social injustices that are systemic to these issues.



nicorete
07.22.10 - 12:55 pm

reply


@girlpower I'm on the fence about this protest for those reasons, although I'm planning on going either way.

We should be angry (and I am), but we also don't want to dig our hole any deeper in that a lot of folks already perceive cyclists as angry, dramatic whiners (which we know is not the case!).

This is a very serious issue, and we need to stay focused on how we can effectively overcome it, and not let events like this become the excuse for a raw expression of our anger, no matter how justified.

I'm all for finding a way to keep it smart, positive, and fun is good too.





ohaijoe
07.22.10 - 12:59 pm

reply


"and highlighting how much fun cycling is to attract more cyclists"



nicorete
07.22.10 - 12:59 pm

reply


What's the phrase . . .

"Well behaved women seldom make history" ??



dudeonabike
07.22.10 - 1:37 pm

reply


I'll wear my riot shoes just in case.;0)





ohaijoe
07.22.10 - 1:42 pm

reply


I would support it if the riders were not covered in fake blood, that would scare the hell out of potential cyclists and that is counter productive.

We want to attract motorists to cycling, not scare the hell out of them. =) The reason most people bought SUV in the nineties and after was becasue they wanted more protection in car accidents. How is cyclists covered in blood going to inspire SUV drivers and other car drivers to cycle?

I would keep the blood and gore and anger out of it and simply ride to the courthouse and make your statements in a peaceful manner.



Girl Power
responding to a comment by ohaijoe
07.22.10 - 2:07 pm

reply


Going to have to respectfully disagree with Girl Power. The point of this ride is to protest the soft response from the authorities on very serious, literally life and death issues. Fake blood and guts, crutches, mangled bikes and a very strong group of riders that have had ENOUGH is part of delivering that message that has so far fallen on deaf ears..

There are plenty of other G-rated/family rides and events to encourage people to hop on a bike, and take up cycling for fun, commuting, etc. If anything, I think people would *want* to support actions that will lead to safer streets and stronger law enforcement against hit and runs and reckless drivers. This is one of those issues that is a part of the bigger picture.



dusky
07.22.10 - 2:21 pm

reply


I think GP has a valid point.

I wonder if this kind of protest will bring much needed awareness that will lead to change, or just produce a massive eyeroll from the already disinterested non, maybe anti-cycling community.

I'm looking at it as a way for us to vent, then get to work on putting a stop to this sh*t.



ohaijoe
responding to a comment by dusky
07.22.10 - 2:30 pm

reply


THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GETTING PEOPLE ON BIKES!!

This has to do with doing something to ensure that cyclist are treated fairly and with more seriousness than some bullshit verdicts.

If people are scared off, I could careless. If demonstrations of this sort help ensure that the next rider is given more respect in the courts and by the community -- then THAT'S WHAT ITS ABOUT.

These are two different topics, and in general there are two different avenues to encourage results. We'll have bike to work fridays soon.

RIGHT NOW, a fellow rider has been treated very bad by our own government.

If the mayor is pro-bicycles, then NOW is his chance to stand up. If LAPD cares, then they have an opportunity to stand up.

In short -- this is about Luis, who was involved in an incident we are all vulnerable to, and his government / city failed him.



md2
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 2:41 pm

reply


First, I was at the courthouse and it was extremely emotional to not see justice served. It was actually quite pitiful to see. Louis deserves so much more than that!

@powergirl Blood does not equal anger or fear. Blood = Life. Don't confuse the meaning of the statement. We can be peaceful. I think it would be awesome if we could roll up silently just ring bells, and of course covered in blood.

@ TheDude - great idea about dropping dead in front of the courthouse. I think it would be beautiful if everyone who has been hit by a car stands up amongst the bodies. I would loved to help with the video/photog aspect. - Hit me up.

@ Roadblock Thanks for rallying



Sikness
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 2:42 pm

reply


And if you're a current cyclist who needs no convincing to ride the streets of LA, then this issue should matter to you.



md2
07.22.10 - 2:45 pm

reply


I agree, this isnt about getting new people on bikes. This about protecting the popele who are already on bikes.



buckchin
responding to a comment by md2
07.22.10 - 2:47 pm

reply


The issues does matter to me, I want to encourage people who are about to spend 35K on a car to ride a bike instead and that means showing them it's a fun way to get around town.

Covering yourself in blood is not good PR. Cyclists covered in blood will scare potential riders from riding, that is counter productive to getting new bike lanes installed since the city COUNTS the number of cyclists on the road before investing money into bike infrastructure.

You're cutting your nose off to spite your face. And don't tell me what I should and should not care about, k? =)

Why don't you do it the hard way, go to school, get a degree, get into politics and start making some changes for the good. Like Mayor Villaragossa did, and stop looking for scare tactics and anger to take the easy way out.

This is not going to be easy, it's not going to be cheap, we are against Big Oil, if we want change then more people need to do want Box and Villaragossa are doing. Make the big commitments in time and education, political activism and businesses to bring about positive change.

Big Oil has people motivated to get degrees and get into congress and other political offices to work for them, we need to do the same.




Girl Power
responding to a comment by md2
07.22.10 - 3:05 pm

reply


"@powergirl Blood does not equal anger or fear. Blood = Life. Don't confuse the meaning of the statement. We can be peaceful. I think it would be awesome if we could roll up silently just ring bells, and of course covered in blood"

Bloody cyclists = cyclists who are angry becasue they are being killed on the road becasue cycling is a DANGEROUS activity. Period. Anyone with common sense would come to the same conclusion. Don't kid yourself about the message your sending.



Girl Power
responding to a comment by Sikness
07.22.10 - 3:07 pm

reply


I'm going to ignore most of your response, but the reality is that cycling can be dangerous, which explains this thread.

Luis and other have been hit, where blood was spilled.

ITS REALITY.

Some of us ride daily and encounter / see a lot. AGAIN, Im not concerned with the general public's perception of whether or not they should throw their legs over a bike.

I want the public to understand that cyclist bleed, that if they hit a cyclist, the ride will bleed. That cyclist can be injured, killed, and that their life may not ever be the same IF HIT. Moreover, I want city officials to understand that we're just as human / important as rich people, drivers, celebrities, and the like, so we deserve the same respect via verdicts that serve to reasonably satisfy our sense of justice.

I believe we've both articulated our stance, so maybe we can leave it alone now (drop it), and more forward with joining others next Tuesday



md2
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 3:26 pm

reply


"I wonder if this kind of protest will bring much needed awareness that will lead to change, or just produce a massive eyeroll from the already disinterested non, maybe anti-cycling community."

Well, I have a suggestion that is all-too-obvious. The best way to attract bees is with honey and the best way to get people to relate to you is to first relate to them.

Try a very professional style ride. Men wear business suits and ties, ladies dress nice in nice cloths, heels and make up, etc.. Go to a courthouse looking like you own the place, like you belong there just as much as those who work there do, and you will be taken seriously.





Girl Power
responding to a comment by ohaijoe
07.22.10 - 3:31 pm

reply


p.s. And be very nice, smile and be professional. A hundred cyclists looking dapper and professional and comporting themselves like they could be in a position of responsibility , smiling and acting kind and courteous while relating their concerns for them selves and their loved ones will have a much greater impact.



Girl Power
07.22.10 - 3:35 pm

reply


Just Devil's Advocate here, but when I went to City Hall to protest and speak against the cuts to the Dept of Cultural Affairs, the only lady who made the news wasn't an administrator in a suit (like the rest of us), she came dressed in feathers and with paper maiche angel wings. She made every news station and her words that spoke the importance of the arts for children and youth were on every newscast.

If you go in and speak nicely and don't step on anyone's toes, then no one will know your there. I think the point of this is to make some noise.

When truckers protested increased fees at the port of Long Beach, they didn't come to City Hall in suits and ties and speak softly to Council Members. They blocked traffic on the 710 and in downtown LA by circling the block in big rigs and blowing their horns continuously.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

In your favor, Girl Power, I will say that we need to have a clear focused message that isn't about saying "fuck you" to people in cars, Council Members, or anyone else we perceive as the enemy, but rather about changing penalties for hit and run and DUI offences so that people aren't getting away with a slap on the wrist for maiming or "murdering" someone.



danceralamode
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 3:43 pm

reply


Keep trying to convince us GP; you are wasting your air.

Cycling is dangerous, and even if we had a perfect bike transport infrastructure, we would still need improved laws involving vulnerable cyclists and pedestrians.

We need better laws, I could care less if this scares away 4 or 5 people.
This protest is small time news compared to a lot of shit, and this story will be forgotten in a week. Better laws will be much more resilient.

If you want to help you can come and work a megaphone, and tell people about your experiences and how you fell.



TheDude
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 3:45 pm

reply


dammit, I meant "you're there" not "your there".



danceralamode
07.22.10 - 4:04 pm

reply


Last time I wore a dress while riding I was verbally abused by multiple drivers on La Brea. Did I feel safer because I was dressed nice? Nope. Just means that when the paramedics cut off your clothes they ruin something expensive.

It's time to do something drastic. This needs to have an impact. This needs to be noticed. Because fuck knows cyclists aren't.



Rach Stevo
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 4:07 pm

reply


I can't help but wonder if those decrying the suggested tactcis of this event have fallen victim to a hit and run driver. I'm not usually down with theatrics or drama, but having been left bleeding on the side of the road by some irresponsible fuckwit in a car myself, I agree with the proposed event wholeheartedly. Unfortunately it conflicts with my employment, so I will not be able to attend.

Fight the good fight, Don.



Jeronimo
07.22.10 - 4:18 pm

reply


I do believe this is an exemption. If there are no more riders out in the streets because they were either maimed or killed, then adversely there is no Midnight Ridazz as well.



Bikekowski
responding to a comment by sexy
07.22.10 - 4:22 pm

reply


"Just Devil's Advocate here, but when I went to City Hall to protest and speak against the cuts to the Dept of Cultural Affairs, the only lady who made the news wasn't an administrator in a suit (like the rest of us), she came dressed in feathers and with paper maiche angel wings. She made every news station and her words that spoke the importance of the arts for children and youth were on every newscast."

But you guys will be dressed nicely on bikes, that is not something people see everyday. ;P

If you look like someone the people in power can relate to - dressing professional and being nice - then they will think:"That could be my aunt, dad or daughter out there on a bike." Food for thought.



Girl Power
responding to a comment by danceralamode
07.22.10 - 4:26 pm

reply


"If you..................................... - then they will think ................"

Sorry, but I have to stop your argument there.

They don't see us, they don't care. I believe what you are suggesting has been done before and will NOT be taken in the slightest bit seriously by anyone we are trying to really communicate to.



TheDude
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 4:36 pm

reply


"Bloody cyclists = cyclists who are angry becasue they are being killed on the road becasue cycling is a DANGEROUS activity. Period. Anyone with common sense would come to the same conclusion. Don't kid yourself about the message your sending."

Please don't pretend to assume that you know "my" motivations. Trust me, I kid not. We shall have to agree to disagree because common sense tell me there is no use arguing with those who choose to judge others' rightful point of view.

We are human, we bleed. It's a sobering reality. I will show my disappointment in our justice system on Tuesday.



Sikness
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 4:36 pm

reply


I appreciate your argument though, and i believe we should have a spokesperson that is not covered in blood.



TheDude
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 4:46 pm

reply


"Bloody cyclists = cyclists who are angry becasue they are being killed on the road becasue cycling is a DANGEROUS activity. Period. Anyone with common sense would come to the same conclusion. Don't kid yourself about the message your sending."

Cycling is not a dangerous activity. That's like saying jogging is a dangerous activity. It is not the activity that is dangerous but the environment--an environment that has been allowed to run rampant with negligent and reckless drivers who make it unsafe for ALL-motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians.

When I ride my bike to work, the store, the gym, a restaurant, and a motorists pulls a dimwit move and nearly kills me, I don't think "wow, cycling is dangerous!" I think "that driver is reckless and dangerous."





danceralamode
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 4:51 pm

reply


The idealist in me agrees with Girl Power, but Danceralamode's right about the squeaky wheel, too. In any event, this ride is a protest, and an expression of cyclists' anger, and I'm all for it (although yeah, I'll probably be at work too).

Going forward, I'd like to hear the various bike orgs and leaders in the bike community chime in and guide us to the most reasonable, efficient and effective way to approach the issue of getting laws properly enforced, and changed where necessary.



ohaijoe
responding to a comment by TheDude
07.22.10 - 4:53 pm

reply


I am gonna be there in blood with my megamaphone. Just e-mailed my boss with a request for the day off. no excuses.



TheDude
responding to a comment by ohaijoe
07.22.10 - 5:18 pm

reply


in response to:

"Why don't you do it the hard way, go to school, get a degree, get into politics and start making some changes for the good. Like Mayor Villaragossa did, and stop looking for scare tactics and anger to take the easy way out."


our government is supposed to work for us, the people. We shouldn't all have to become politicians to get what we want. The fact that that's often the reality only shows how corrupt our government really is, and how desperately we need to hold our representatives (and Judges) accountable.


in response to:

"If you look like someone the people in power can relate to - dressing professional and being nice - then they will think:"That could be my aunt, dad or daughter out there on a bike." Food for thought."

No offense, but it seems like you haven't had enough experiences of trying this and seeing it fail again and again. The main reason for this protest is the fact that this situation is happening again, after all the professional and nice dialogues with political leaders, law enforcement, lawsuits, etc. Cyclists are fed up. The traditional ways are not working and that is why this approach is being taken. The people in power need a wake-up call and that's what this is intended to be. So when people are saying that won't work it's not speculation - it hasn't worked for as long as anyone can remember.



Ayla
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 5:20 pm

reply


Cycling is not a dangerous activity. That's like saying jogging is a dangerous activity. It is not the activity that is dangerous but the environment--an environment that has been allowed to run rampant with negligent and reckless drivers who make it unsafe for ALL-motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians.

I agree with you 100%. You're preaching to the choir. That is why cyclists covered in blood is such a counterproductive message. It's sends the wrong message.

@ Dude. I think people do care about people when they can relate to them, that's all I'm trying to say.



Girl Power
responding to a comment by danceralamode
07.22.10 - 5:42 pm

reply


"our government is supposed to work for us, the people. We shouldn't all have to become politicians to get what we want. The fact that that's often the reality only shows how corrupt our government really is, and how desperately we need to hold our representatives (and Judges) accountable."

But our government does not work for us, this is an oligarchy, not a democracy. Democracy is just a thin veneer. Big Oil money talks, our officials work for lobbyists. That is reality. It's not nice but it won't go away unless more people, like the Mayor, get degrees and get into the political trenches.



Girl Power
responding to a comment by Ayla
07.22.10 - 5:46 pm

reply


Cycling is a lot more dangerous than jogging, as is any sport where we are traveling at high speeds. Cars, grates, light poles, fences, unseen turns, trees, other cyclists, potholes, tracks..... there are many things that make cycling dangerous. On top of that drunk drivers..... which are always going to be around no matter how hard we try, it's an imperfect world.....



braydon
07.22.10 - 6:00 pm

reply


The only reason the bicycle business survives from injury law suits is that bicycles
are inherantly dangerous. Anytime that you ride a bike your putting yourself at risk
of injury or death.



Dedicated818
07.22.10 - 6:08 pm

reply


Cuz the mayor is so great? And college degrees are so great? And politics is all about being a professional diplomat?

I'm all for the blood ride.




nicorete
responding to a comment by Girl Power
07.22.10 - 6:12 pm

reply


Anytime you do anything you are putting yourself at risk. Anytime you drive you put your self at risk. Anytime you walk or run you put yourself at risk. If I go for a jog and pull a muscle, can I sue Nike for it? No. Cycling is not dangerous; it is negligent motorists, drunk motorists, and poorly educated drivers who put others, including cyclists, at risk.



danceralamode
responding to a comment by Dedicated818
07.22.10 - 7:37 pm

reply


bunch of fucking babies.
http://charlotte.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/the_cycling_epidemic/Content?oid=996069



ruinedbyidiots
07.22.10 - 8:15 pm

reply


@gp.... Hi, I did not read all your comments and i believe you are a positive person, ...however, may I suggest you consider starting a thread about persuading everyday drivers to choose to ride a bicycle as an alternative form of transportation... and allow this thread to continue with positive collaboration from individuals for this event.... I for one am thrilled that MR is going to push and hopefully flex its muscle in a political realm for cyclists rights.... as I have mentioned many times, a couple of my family members commute daily and we have been fortunate to navigate through the city without having major altercations.... and would appreciate some better protection for them and all of us.... not that riders will not be hurt in the future, but drivers should face strong punishments for injuring cyclists (as long as cyclists are also riding correctly)

I believe the organizers have been positive and also concern about how MR will look but at the same time the anger must be displayed as a unit, as a whole... there will always be one, two, three or many more perspectives on what a cyclists covered with blood represents.... but allow this thread to continue working with ideas.... I understand your dissent, but you have stated your opinion... now, allow the event to grow positively... the first half of this thread has many individuals and organizers trying their best to develop images to make this memorable and have an impact.... (gp, you may not agree with that impact or those images, I get that) ... but this shows a lot in the cycling community that event began by a cyclists being angry about an incident.... and I hope it continues to grow and really be huge...



dayone
07.22.10 - 10:01 pm

reply


NO MEGAPHONES PLEASE.


NO ROWDINESS. This is a serious issue. I've been goign back and forth with people about this. The point is that we dont want the public to think we are a bunch of rowdy kids. we are just people.



Roadblock
07.22.10 - 10:34 pm

reply


I just updated all the text for this. please re-read.

It's IMPORTANT that we don't make this about demonizing the girl in this case... this is about demonizing this system.



Roadblock
07.23.10 - 12:04 am

reply


Too Blood or not to Blood?
Too Scary? No. Obviously this is theatrics to get attention about a larger point. It will probably be more funny than scary.
Effective? It will get attention... but the right type of attention?

The key here will be framing. When LACM rode to the ghost bike of Jesus Castillo and had a "Die In".

It was a visual stunt that was covered by the media. but advocates were there to talk to TV reporters and frame the spectacle.

The news loves dramatic visuals.
And lets face it. There is a crucial message that needs to get out.
It will not hurt to have some theatrics, IF WE HAVE OUR SHIT TOGETHER and can speak cogently about what we are doing and why.

Lets make sure that people understand that our anger does not begin or end with this injustice that happened to Louis. This just happens to be the tipping point,

This not about this judge or this driver, no matter how much we might despise how they have acted. This is about a broken system that incentivises drivers to hit and run
through weak laws and lack of enforcement.

This just happens to be a clear example of how our law and culture continuously fail to protect or met out justice when a driver hits a vulnerable road user and leaves the scene.

Our laws and culture create this situation over and over again.
Lets make sure that the "villains" of this case don't serve as a distraction to the larger issue(s). If they were taken out of the picture this would still happen again and again.

We need bike education for drivers. Safer streets designed with cyclists in mind, and we need to REFORM HIT AND RUN LAWS NOW!







trickmilla
07.23.10 - 1:57 am

reply


Do you have a date/time you're set on? Monday, I'm down Tuesday I have to work. I could mount a mangled bike on the front of my van and smear it with fake blood.

I think that this is part of the growing pains we're going to experience as bicycles transition from anamolous to being part of city traffic. It's going to be hard struggle as LA is always been a car town.



rev106
responding to a comment by trickmilla
07.23.10 - 9:35 am

reply


...Just in from Comic-Con



Sikness
07.23.10 - 10:54 am

reply


Who's willing to be a speaker/spokesperson? I think it's really important that we get this one right. If we want our message to be clear and concise we need strong members of the community to step forward. Also, anyone have a PA system?



Sikness
07.23.10 - 11:44 am

reply


I'd be very interested to see how the Judge has ruled in similar cases where there was a drunk driver who has fled the scene when there was life threatening injuries? But in car vs car accidents?



buckchin
07.23.10 - 3:01 pm

reply


Tuesday, July 23, 5pm, Beverly Hills Courthouse, 9355 Burton Way, Beverly Hills, CA

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=140379365981777



Rach Stevo
07.23.10 - 4:00 pm

reply


You mean this is happening today? Or is it Tuesday, the 27th?



July
responding to a comment by Rach Stevo
07.23.10 - 4:43 pm

reply


WHOOPS

****July 27th**** Tuesday NEXT week



Rach Stevo
responding to a comment by July
07.23.10 - 5:12 pm

reply


I can't make this ride, it is too early. But I will be on LACM. I believe they are going to ride past the courthouse and the scene of the crime.





328rides4ever
07.23.10 - 5:14 pm

reply


I have a Roland portable guitar amp that could be used as a PA system.





jericho1ne
responding to a comment by 328rides4ever
07.23.10 - 9:24 pm

reply


"Drivers know that it is worth the risk of getting caught for fleeing the scene because the justice system time and again hands drivers light punishments to opportunistic and frankly evil people."

Most people are probably scared shitless, panic stricken, "crazy old drivers," very intoxicated, or all of the above when they flee an accident. If you ran into someone would you really take the time to go hmm what are the costs and risks involved here? I suppose there may be a small minority that are evil and laugh while running down people and crashing into cyclists. come on hobbes.




nicorete
07.23.10 - 9:58 pm

reply


Today at the 4th Street Bike Boulevard press event I spoke with city councilman Tom LaBonge (a fellow rider, he commutes on his bike to downtown to work everyday) about the injustice in this case -- his advice was to call up the judge's office on Monday and warn them about the protest, giving them an opportunity to change the sentence. This to me sounds like a smart thing to do. I thanked him and thought I would share his thoughts with the biking community here.
In the likely event that the sentence will not change, see you Tuesday.


Superior Court Judge Elden Fox (up for re-election this year)
don't have a direct line for the judge but
Beverly Hills Courthouse (310) 288-1308 -- hours 8:00am to 4:30pm



PeterR
07.24.10 - 2:23 pm

reply


You're kidding, right? LaBonge, the guy who said he was scared to ride his bike in the street to a bunch of cyclists who do so everyday? I just think that's funny. But in the interest of a peaceful protest, we should probably alert them that we will be coming. Also, has anyone alerted the press yet?



danceralamode
responding to a comment by PeterR
07.24.10 - 2:51 pm

reply


no i am not kidding. what did exactly did he say? i'm not aware.



PeterR
responding to a comment by danceralamode
07.24.10 - 3:02 pm

reply


i mean, what exactly did he say, and how does it apply to his advice in this matter? anyway, i think it's good idea to give them an 'out' -- it's how we can leverage and possibly get results. also in addition to 'alerting the media' we have to make sure we are our own press.



PeterR
07.24.10 - 3:06 pm

reply


I am pretty sure that altering a sentence absent significantly changed circumstances would violate a criminal defendant's fifth amendment due process right as applied to the states by the 14th amendment.

i hope to make it to this after the first day of the Bar exam lets out in century city



nolikedrive
responding to a comment by PeterR
07.24.10 - 3:38 pm

reply


That seems like ridiculous advice from the councilman. Truly weird.
What judge would second guess a decision based on the wishes of a group of protesters?




trickmilla
responding to a comment by PeterR
07.24.10 - 6:44 pm

reply


Lets focus on the fact that this outcome is all too common.
That is, for cases that even make it this far.

What is more common in hit and run cases is: no conviction, no trial, no arrest, and no investigation.

What is so frustrating is that this is one of the few cases that actually makes it to trial.
Most hit and run case never even get to the point of the judge handing out such an unjustifiably weak sentence.



trickmilla
07.24.10 - 6:46 pm

reply


I agree, it actually does seem like weird advice, but i think the idea behind it is to give the judge an idea of the public outrage over the sentence (he may have no idea)
Then if he fails to address it appropriately, it can only strengthen the intention of the protest.



PeterR
responding to a comment by trickmilla
07.24.10 - 8:08 pm

reply


Wow! I was really excited about the first several organizing and planning posts on here. Was very productive. Hope that momentum continues and you don't feel you always have to defend yourselves to the Debbie Downers!



Boogey100Fires
07.25.10 - 10:14 am

reply


@RB

Folks on LA Fixed are asking about a Downtown meet-up. What intersection in Silver Lake are you taking off from at 4pm? The least I could do is pass that on.



jericho1ne
07.25.10 - 6:30 pm

reply


Westwood/UCLA to Beverly Hills County Courthouse
Leaving at 4:20pm from Westwood and LeConte
ROUTE





jericho1ne
07.25.10 - 6:38 pm

reply


Ignore previous route link.

Westwood to BH Courthouse





jericho1ne
07.25.10 - 6:41 pm

reply


I believe Roadblock is leading a ride from the Bicycle district at 4pm.



sgrant
07.25.10 - 6:51 pm

reply


Melrose and Heliotrope group leaves at 4pm.





jericho1ne
responding to a comment by sgrant
07.26.10 - 2:56 pm

reply


see this is why people don't get it....


scared shitless? YES. crazy old drivers? this girl was 18 and from what I understand she was not above the legal blood alcohol level. so she wasn't very intoxicated nor was she "old." Also from what I understand she pulled into a gas station and then took off. So she did make a split second decision.





Roadblock
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.26.10 - 4:04 pm

reply


She was intoxicated - she was breathalyzed 4 hours after she was pulled over and blew .01.



Alex Thompson
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.26.10 - 4:55 pm

reply


I get now that you are trying to make this a really case specific action. If you do some research you will understand that the majority of hit and runs occur because of intoxication (she tested positive for alcohol and was over the legal limit cause she is NOT of age), unlicensed/suspended license, immaturity, and SELF PRESERVATION (hence making the laws more strict would only scare drivers more who had no intention of hitting someone in the first place.
I guess you just really turn me off when you think there is this "endless slap on the wrist soft on crime approach" within our legal system. So this action is geared toward getting tough on crime, more specifically hit and run. Has getting "tough on crime" ever really reduced or ended crime and injustice? Furthermore, you are right, the girl is ONLY 18. What would you like to happen to this immature kid? Has anyone spoke to her or her family?

All I am saying is that we need to take the HIT out of HIT AND RUN. Which to me and most others who have been hit is the important part! Retribution is not my goal BUT making this society and street more safe and accessible for cyclists is. Imprisoning and punishing youthful immaturity and getting tough on crime is antithetical to this goal.





nicorete
07.26.10 - 5:01 pm

reply


I can empathize with the action, but the press release is somewhat misguided and has a serious possibility of being misconstrued by the media.



nicorete
07.26.10 - 5:11 pm

reply


you don't get it. The HIT part is not what's important when there is a collision. YES we want to reduce the amount of HITS out there. but people make driver errors. it's a fact of life. Driving under the influence is CRIMINAL. leaving the person you smashed up is CRIMINAL. BOTH of these things need to STOP.

however, HIT is never ever going to be reduced to zero because people will always make mistakes, but the RUN needs to be drastically reduced. The only way to do that is to smack people that are selfish pieces of shit, with high punishment. This girl can do 30 days in jail AND she can do 90 days cal tran AND she can get her license revoked for 5 years AND she will have to pay Louis back completely. Is that too much of a penalty?



Roadblock
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.26.10 - 5:19 pm

reply


where is the press release?



Roadblock
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.26.10 - 5:20 pm

reply


I'm riding out from near Pan Pacific park tomorrow if anyone wants to ride w/me...get as many people as possible. This is essential. Whatever your aesthetic preferences, blood/no blood, your SUPPORT is what is important and showing your face.



sinaphile
07.26.10 - 9:42 pm

reply


I agree. Not everyone has to be in blood. it more important that we all show up.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by sinaphile
07.26.10 - 9:44 pm

reply


Le Bump



TheDude
07.27.10 - 1:55 am

reply


anyone still want to meet up westside so they don't have to go halfway to downtown?

OLD VENICE SKATEPARK?

SaMo PIER CANON?

as a cyclist i've been victim to as many hits as i've been at fault for so in this new age where i feel karmacally justified i'd love to be apart of this. just last week i was struck by a vehicle avoiding a large tour van door on hollywood blvd and knocked off my bike when a car bumped me from the rear. all i did was ask for a cigarette from the door guy and 25 bucks from the chick cause she bent my bars. scrapes are still healing, my hip is still out. yeah i could've taken her to court i had a bunch of witnesses but i felt bad and was in shock. plus i hit a car on a ride running a red light i thought was going to be corked, riding handless/footless fixed. genius i know. managed to turn avoiding a t-bone and put a fat dented slice into his back left panel. i also gave him fake information. i was also shwasted.

anyways we've all had plenty of accidents those just happen to be my worse. i'm just saying it's important for all cyclists to come together and be apart of this.

someone should email the mayor about this



sklank
07.27.10 - 8:48 am

reply


I don't get out of work until 530! I'm near fairfax and beverly anyone want to meet up at pan pacific park? Or somewhere more west? IM me eheartsart.



et
07.27.10 - 9:26 am

reply


There are a variety of reasons why people run. DUi, No licence, No insurance, No Papers, possession of drugs, open warrant etc.

The penalties for most of these crimes is greater that that for hit and run.

So it is an easy self preserving position for many selfish drivers.

Hit and Run is a basic violation of a driver's contract with society.

We are saying that this is a much bigger infraction that how it is being punished.

We are saying that this case is a perfect example of something that happens over and over again.

We are saying that we are fucking tired of seeing people get hurt and others fleeing their responsibility because they can, because the law perversely encourages them to.

There is no legal incentive to do teh right thing.
That needs to change.
Now.





trickmilla
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.27.10 - 9:41 am

reply


Nicorete, with all due respect, regardless of one's age, if they're driving a car and they hurt or threaten someone, they ought to get punished for it. Doesn't matter if the criminal is 18 or 80. Think about it this way - she gets off easy now with a few hours of community service, then she won't think much of it. Maybe when she's 22 she'll run YOU off the road, and you'll be in a coma or dead.

Does that change your perspective at all? Even a tiny bit?

Do you really think that the average Angeleno will respond to an educational campaign alone? Do you think putting up posters that read "Please give us 3 feet" will solve the problem? There have to be stiff penalties for physically hurting people with a fucking car. That along with "driver education" has a chance of bettering our survival rate in this shithole of a town.



jericho1ne
responding to a comment by trickmilla
07.27.10 - 11:35 am

reply






Joe Borfo
07.27.10 - 11:38 am

reply






jericho1ne
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
07.27.10 - 11:48 am

reply


yep



Joe Borfo
07.27.10 - 11:54 am

reply


They go out of their way to install fear in us of the legal system as they consistantly have proven that they feel that we are, literally, bugs on the windshield of their cars and mere mosquitoes buzzing in their ears to "do something! Change this now!" Let's go & bring as many people as we can to prove that this "legality" should be ILLEGAL!!!!



sinaphile
07.27.10 - 12:08 pm

reply


why isnt this posted on the ride calendar?



tortuga_veloce
07.27.10 - 12:18 pm

reply


If you are going to the ride and have a HELMET wear it!



Sikness
07.27.10 - 12:44 pm

reply


Tuesday, July 27th, 6:15 pm
Beverly Hills Courthouse
9355 Burton Way
Blood In Press Conference
interviews to follow press conference
open mic available to attendees after press conference

Friday, July 30th, 8:15 pm
Beverly Hills Courthouse
9355 Burton Way
Press Conference
interviews to follow press conference
open mic available to attendees after press conference



Joe Borfo
07.27.10 - 1:22 pm

reply



"Anyone who has ever been a victim of

-hit and run
-poor law enforcement treatment after a collision
-poor treatment or slap on the wrist scenario by court system

-Anyone who knows of someone who was killed."

I'm putting together a photo op documenting the different hit and run cases that have occurred in Los Angeles. If you know of anyone (news stories?)that fits this profile please send me their name, the date of the hit and run and if that were injured/killed, that would help. I'm going to print signs for each incident and have people hold them up to represent each story.

I will also bring sharpies and paper to the meet up if you would like to make your own.

email me @ sikuinc at gmail [dot] Commers




Sikness
07.27.10 - 1:52 pm

reply


AWESOME.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by Sikness
07.27.10 - 1:53 pm

reply


Is anyone going to be meeting up at Hollywood/Highland to go to this?? If so please post the time or the location.



July
07.27.10 - 2:18 pm

reply


Last thing...

If you want to hold a sign, please try to wear red [t-shirt, scarf, ascot, whatever].



Sikness
07.27.10 - 2:21 pm

reply


What time is the press conference. cant seem to find that in the post.



stillline
responding to a comment by Sikness
07.27.10 - 2:34 pm

reply


press conference starts at 5.

ride from bike district is at 4pm...

anyone want to grab a beer at pure luck beforehand?



Roadblock
responding to a comment by stillline
07.27.10 - 2:50 pm

reply


what is your route from bike district? I'm right in b/w, and would love to catch up with you guys...



sinaphile
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.27.10 - 3:12 pm

reply


The 3 main questions that I pose have not been addressed.
(1) Will increasing the penalties for hit and run provide a disincentive for people to (a) stop hitting cyclists? (b) fleeing the scene of the accident? Has increasing punishment for any crime ever really resolved an issue? Historically?
(2) What is the average/statistical sentence for hit and run? And off those drivers that do flee and get away, which I am sure is a great a number of them, what are their reasons? Beyond saying that they are criminals and making claims of evil human nature.
(3) Is there other solutions to the issue, besides draconian measures, that will be more productive to resolving both hit and run.

A short story:
A group of 30 or so bicycle riders find a chill spot to rest and have a few drinks. Some local residents call the police because from their perspective they see some hooligan criminals causing trouble. A squad car comes 5 minutes later and the cyclists drop all their cans and bottles in fear of getting a tiny misdemeanor. They ride away leaving all the litter because the cop scared them. The next night a local janitor is assigned to pick up the trash at the end of her shift. Frustrated she drinks the 20oz remaining in a 32oz high life that was littered on the ground. Tired and weary driving home she rams a cyclist with her front bumper who she clearly failed to see. That same janitor happened to be an undocumented person residing in the U.S. Without auto insurance, license, and a slight hint of beer on her breath she speeds away to her 2 kids. Whose the criminal?

This may sound like some crazy story but the point is this. Dramatic narratives can be used in many ways and people should have the ability to take up multiple subject positions. I empathize with the feeling that laws should be strict but I don't support it because to me there are more humanistic angles to solve the issue then locking people up and throwing out the key and punishing individuals not in power to change our society.





nicorete
responding to a comment by jericho1ne
07.27.10 - 3:16 pm

reply


good question. might just go straight down san monica



Roadblock
responding to a comment by sinaphile
07.27.10 - 3:18 pm

reply


increased penalties for drunk driving work.

now you've brought up a lot of tangled issues in your dramatic narrative. how does this have any effect on the drunk teenager who nearly killed birdman or the drunk twentysomething that hit roadblock?



tortuga_veloce
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.27.10 - 3:31 pm

reply


answer to questions:

1a: Probably not since hitting a cyclist (unintentionally) is not a crime it won't provide much incentive to prevent crashes.

1b YES. The reason that people flee the scene is because they don't want to get caught for drunk driving, which as this complaint points out, carries a stiffer penalty. If HnR carries an even stiffer penalty and the judicial system and law enforcement act more vigilantly then the belief is that it will deter people from running.

Has punishment deterred any kind of crime? wow. what a question... basically you are questioning whether there should be laws guiding society that have consequences if not followed.

lets start on the reasonable low level. do you believe that parents have reason to impose punishment for unruly children? do you believe that teachers should be able to impose punishment for kids that act out of line?

lets find out how you feel on a more extreme level, if not punishment, what keeps people from violating other people? should people be allowed to kill others and never face punishment? how about rape? how else would you provide an incentive for people not to kill or rape other people?

no one is saying to lock people up and throw away the key.... we are asking for some jail time. revocation of the license... real revocation not limited use revocation, and re-education classes.



as for you're scenario: "A squad car comes 5 minutes later and the cyclists drop all their cans and bottles in fear of getting a tiny misdemeanor. They ride away leaving all the litter because the cop scared them. The next night a local janitor is assigned to pick up the trash at the end of her shift. Frustrated she drinks the 20oz remaining in a 32oz high life that was littered on the ground. Tired and weary driving home she rams a cyclist with her front bumper who she clearly failed to see. That same janitor happened to be an undocumented person residing in the U.S. Without auto insurance, license, and a slight hint of beer on her breath she speeds away to her 2 kids. Whose the criminal? "



the crimminals would be both the bike riders and the janitor. however the degree of crime (I hope you believe that there are different degrees of wrong doing ie. drinking in public vs. dinking and driving a 4000lb piece of equipment or leaving someone to die in the street) is more severe in the case of the janitor. littering is a crime, but I would argue it is less serious than endangering a human being or taking their life.

I understand what you are saying about humanitarian ways of influencing behaviour. but jail is not the end of the world. man people survive it. Paris Hilton survived, so can this girl.



















Roadblock
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.27.10 - 3:35 pm

reply


OK....Will try to catch up with you guys on SM blvd then!! Would love to ride in with y'all...



sinaphile
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.27.10 - 3:57 pm

reply


IN



newarkhouse
07.27.10 - 4:01 pm

reply


(1) Will increasing the penalties for hit and run provide a disincentive for people to (a) stop hitting cyclists?

--Yes, though I dont think (most) people hit cyclist for the incentives.

(b) fleeing the scene of the accident?

--Yes, though I don't even care what the disincentives are, not fleeing the scene is imperative.

Has increasing punishment for any crime ever really resolved an issue?

--Yes.


Historically?

--Yes, issues have been resolved in history by punishing criminals.

(2) What is the average/statistical sentence for hit and run?

--Approximately Three words, but it depends on the sentence

And off those drivers that do flee and get away, which I am sure is a great a number of them, what are their reasons?

--for getting away? Cause they're dicks and lacked the courage to stop. Why don't they stop? Cause they're afraid of the consequences, and would rather risk getting away. Or else, why dont they stop? But if the risk of getting away is combined with the even if they dont get away, not much will happen, then you have a perfect mixture to just take your chances.

(3) Is there other solutions to the issue, besides draconian measures, that will be more productive to resolving both hit and run.

--Yes. I know it's hard to absorb, but you know when you jump in a car and decided to drive along the streets and shit? Yeah, so um, I would say you implicitly accept the responsibility for the damages caused by your driving, whether you accept that notion or not. So maybe this is not about solving hitting, since it is up to the driver to not be an idiot.

And what will resolve people from running? That the thing called responsibility and compassion for a person you just hit with a 2 ton piece of machinery, which unless our society is soooo stupid that they do not think any harm can be done by their vehicle -- you wonder why they flee in the first place.

The fact is, they know they potentially injured, killed, hurt a real person, and yet they flee.

As for your oh so complex anecdote -- the cyclist broke the law, the driver broke the law. Its unfortunate the janitor failed to see the cyclist, but you know, sometimes you need to not drive. Its the risk we take, but we have a city built on supporting a mode of transportation that allows this behavior.

Jail time is not the issue.

The issue is simple: Do you think your sense of justice has been satisfied by the verdict?

If so, then feel free to explain. If not, then you're with us on our varied beliefs in punishment, but our common agreement that justice has not been served.



md2
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.27.10 - 4:02 pm

reply


**the cyclist who left their bottles broke the law

thats what i meant

off to the court



md2
07.27.10 - 4:04 pm

reply


Well done everyone!



et
07.27.10 - 8:36 pm

reply


This was fun! And we got their attention. Thanks to Barleye for handing me his camera and props to everyone who made it out. And I just ran into angel & anthony here on 7th&LA dtla



d-styles
07.27.10 - 9:14 pm

reply


If anyone happened to pick up a pair of sunglasses from Will Rogers Memorial Park (where we bloodied up), please could you let me know? I accidentally left mine on a bench before we rode away.

Thanks to all the speakers, it was great to hear lots of different opinions and ideas.



Rach Stevo
07.27.10 - 9:54 pm

reply


Anthony and Angel are cool peoples.

I was happy to see a lot of old friends, and hopeful that maybe this type of thing will happen again in a much larger scale.



TheDude
responding to a comment by d-styles
07.27.10 - 11:03 pm

reply


Photos up on flickr

Protest At Beverly Hills Courthouse Of The Sentancing Of Celine Mahdavi, And Launch Of Life Before License Campaign

Protest At Beverly Hills Courthouse Of The Sentancing Of Celine Mahdavi, And Launch Of Life Before License Campaign



GarySe7en
07.28.10 - 1:24 am

reply


"Jail time is not the issue.
The issue is simple: Do you think your sense of justice has been satisfied by the verdict?"
No! The whole damn system is guilty. Justice has not been served.

I really wish the issue was presented the way md2 said it. Especially when the Jail time is not the issue. A movement that allows people to understand justice in multiple ways is always positive.

@Roadblock, heard you on the good old kpfk. You and MRz really want that girl to get some jail time. Even some people I know with kpfk were taken back. Especially with the MADD support and DUI stuff.
My friend who doesnt cycle, yet, was like maybe MRz should just advocate for cameras on every street and intersection. i think he's missing the picture but it sounded like that was next on the radio waves.

http://beeradvocate.com/news/2920298
http://californiawatch.org/public-safety/car-seizures-dui-checkpoints-prove-profitable-cities-raise-legal-questions


I dig md2's proposition of keeping it open. Non technical and non partisan politics.



nicorete
responding to a comment by md2
07.28.10 - 3:17 am

reply


Maybe if you knew Roadblock's story you would have a better understanding why his stance is as such. Ask him some time about his hit and run case and how he was also left for dead and the outcome of it. Let's pray you never have to go through what so many of us have gone through because sadly, only then might you be able to actually "feel" the other sides point of view.



Bikekowski
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.28.10 - 3:29 am

reply


I think you are judging this by selectively listening to the jail time thing. I get where the people advocating for jail time come from, for one thing it seems highly unfair and unbalanced if someone can be caught doing graffiti and get a felony while someone can nearly take out a life with their recklessness and do a few hours of community service time. It reeks of double standards completely out of line with the kind of damage being done.

But a lot of us are pressing most for revoking and suspending driving privileges. Most reckless drivers are not otherwise bad or dangerous people to society, only when they are behind the wheel. I want these people off the road. They should get education and they should have some time to think about the privilege of driving while they are on the bus. That's why I think Alex's idea of a campaign called Life Before License is the perfect way to sum up the issue. Driving is not a right, it is privilege, and it's a privilege given too easily and it's too difficult to suspend when warranted, and human life should come first in priorities before having a license to drive. The book Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt is a good read on the topic of driving safety.

In the most heinous cases I do think jail time is very warranted, certainly in cases like Mandeville case where there is strong reason to believe it was intentional action that let to harming another human being. But again most of all I want these people off the road. This judge sought to restrict Mahdavi's access to alcohol in the probation terms, something that is a right, rather than restrict her driving, the real danger. This is backward, the problem isn't alcohol, it's the driving.

Here is the recent blog post I wrote on my thoughts on the justice issues:
http://garyridesbikes.blogspot.com/2010/07/some-thoughts-on-meaning-of-justice-for.html



GarySe7en
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.28.10 - 9:34 am

reply


I appreciate the awareness that has been brought to the issue. The judge should be ashamed of his ruling. We should all be angry, non cyclists included. Injustice is not isolated to one group, injustice happens everyday.

I fear, that with the blood and other gimmicks it will cause non cyclists watching on the news to feel detached. Those who spend little to no time on bikes are likely to see this protest like they see us on the road, as a nuisance. In addition, believe it is the common feeling that cyclists are a nuisance that allowed this injustice to take place. However, this protest is likely to get good press coverage because of the bloodied theme.

People who take a stand for injustice are applauded by me. Goodluck. I will try to be in attendance as well. The strength of a protest lies in the numbers, and the ability of the speakers to evoke empathy.



Tripp$_fo.Kickz
07.28.10 - 10:11 am

reply


Damn. LOL that's what I get for skipping down the thread.



Tripp$_fo.Kickz
07.28.10 - 10:14 am

reply


Thanks to all the cyclists that made it out to the press conference and represent those who could not make it.

THanks Brad for the pics.



Foldie
07.28.10 - 10:31 am

reply


I fear, that with the blood and other gimmicks it will cause non cyclists watching on the news to feel detached.

too late

But, you know, the general public gets fed tons of images of car wrecks via news channels, eye witness accounts, movies, etc.... doesn't seem to stop them

One thing to note is this:

A number of us are really conscious of the dangers, not just because we think about them, but because we ride. You might wonder: what the hell is it about bicycles and riding them, that people would continue to engage in the activity EVEN THOUGH they know it could kill them, etc? I don't know.

On the one hand you have people who see, hear, and experience dangers, and continue to ride.

On the other hand you have people who are "supposedly" on the fence about riding.

I'm more skeptical about the latter. Honestly, the reason is simple. Cycling doesn't offer the instant gratification that society is so keen on receiving. It takes time to develop, enjoy and become comfortable to do. I truly believe that is probably the real reason next to not having good infrastructure, that people do not ride.

Life in general is bloody and dangerous.

I keep reading from people (e.g. Girl Power *ugh* and Trips for Kids -- by the way, thats kind of creepy name -- where are you taking kids on trips to and why?) about these potential recruits. "I" think most people who are truly on the fence are there because they know about the dangers. So this wouldn't be news to them. Moreover, I believe it is our responsibility to give a complete picture of commuting in Los Angeles, lest we resort to the same propaganda techniques we regularly dismiss.

All this "the public saw blood, they're going to never ride a bike" talk is kind of nonsense. I think the burden of proof is on those that proclaim it.



md2
responding to a comment by Tripp$_fo.Kickz
07.28.10 - 10:34 am

reply


jeeeeez. Jail time is not THAT big of a deal. really. people do stints in jail all the time and completely survive. BUT it is a huge deterrent for a lot of "on the fence" people not to do crime. hit and run drivers are often the "on the fence" types... they pause for a second. happend for Louis, happened for Magos, happened for me.... I mean most people don't like to be in jail and therefore they don't do things that would get them put in jail. But there is no message to the "on the fence" people that they will be punished.

have you ever heard someone say "I dont want to do that, I dont want to go to jail."

what if this girl got 12 days? is that harsh? are you saying it wouldn't be a deterrent to most people?

what is a "real" deterrent to immoral behaviour?





Roadblock
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.28.10 - 12:05 pm

reply


"what is a "real" deterrent to immoral behavior?"

The rewarding of good behavior. (non-applicable?)




Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.28.10 - 1:36 pm

reply


from the LAist:

"20-year-old Mark Hull and 22-year-old Carlos Fuentes face 90 days in jail and a year of probation, during which time they must not go near the Staples Center. Hull is in custody at Camp Pendleton, charged with deserting the Marines. During the post-game melee, Hull threw rocks through a Downtown business' window, and Fuentes broke the lights on a police car"

So throwing rocks at windows is more severe than almost killing a human......



Foldie
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
07.28.10 - 2:14 pm

reply


I was the caller who briefly mentioned MADD and identified myself as "Trickmilla of the Midinight Ridazz Network".

I hope nobody took that as me some how speaking for the Midnight Ridazz. Nobody can speak for the Midnight Ridazz we all have our own opinions.

As far as the specific case in question/
I have never called for jail time. In fact I did not listen to the whole case, so personally I can't really say what the right sentence should be.

But just based on some simple facts. Like Luis' time in the hospital being greater than the amount of hours she will spend doing community service, hints at the fact that the sentence was way to mild.

There are practical & symbolic reasons why we should demand that people lose their license for a significant amount of time if they hit and run.

Leaving the scene is a conscious violation of the social contract that comes with being granted the privilege of driving a car. And yes, if people start fearing teh consequences of a hit and run, they will be less likely to do it.

In nearly every hit and run account I have heard the driver stops for a moment. Apparently to think about what they are going to do. This is a concious decision to put personal interest above another person's health, safety and financial well being.
Hit and Run has become EPIDEMIC.

When it was asked on the mic yesterday if anybody present had been victim of a Hit and Run or had a friend who had been victim of hit and run about 90% of us raised our hands.

Hit and Runs comprise a huge percentage of vehicle accidents. Its past time that we both educate people about doing the right thing AND make sensible changes in the law to incentives people to do the right thing.

Its not that complicated.



trickmilla
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.28.10 - 2:23 pm

reply


I gave a very tepid hug to Sara Bond yesterday.
So here is a huge fucking hug.
THANK YOU!!!
You are truly a gem.
Until Alex's piece about the trial, that has not been a single human in this world that has written as extensively about this important story.

And for the rest of you.
Wow.
Westsidazz and Beastsidazz & beyond were in full effect.
I am truly grateful for the efforts of Roadblock, AT, Sara, Mahai, Gary, Chickenleather & all the other people who planned, helped and documented and participated yesterday.

It is an honor to stand alongside you all and work toward making this amazing city a better, safer, more beautiful place to live.

Ride On!
xoxoxo
Trickmillz

ps the blood was chocolicious ... great recipe!





trickmilla
07.28.10 - 2:33 pm

reply


I gave a very tepid hug to Sara Bond yesterday.*
(because we were both covered in sticky fake blood) :)




trickmilla
07.28.10 - 2:34 pm

reply


Also DJ Wheels fucking killed it!



trickmilla
07.28.10 - 2:35 pm

reply


jail is a big deal
It's a big enough deal that it should not be a simple scapegoat for punishing people.

Just because they exist does not necessitate that it is a just institution nor that it is right to send people there.

Some cases seem to clearly help the cause for jail. there is a kind of separation from society (though the jail's are located in the society). What "really" justifies the removal? But more importantly, what justifies the removal to a place with all the features of jail? It's not just that you're moving them out, but it's what you're moving them into.

It is very difficult to come to terms with, but the very "real' (non-abstract) part of the discussion is that people are seriously talking about advocating people going to jail. That is something worth thinking about. This is not just a discussion, but actively stating publicly: send these people to jail.

That starts to play into the realm of being blood in your hands, so to speak, unless advocacy is just a 2nd tier dream. Or advocacy just doesn't have any real affect, in which case why waste our time?

Jails are packed, and the jail has a revolving door. In a sense we have our proof jail doesn't work, where is the proof it does?

I think the good question is: what is a good deterrent then?

(sorry for another long post)



md2
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.28.10 - 2:51 pm

reply


well said.
The U.S. is home to about 5 percent of the world's total population and 25 percent of the worlds prison population. Just because jail is normalized in this society doesn't make it a small deal.

"Hit and Run has become EPIDEMIC...Hit and Runs comprise a huge percentage of vehicle accidents." There needs to be some research on this, maybe with some numbers if you are going to talk statistics and especially if you think a large majority of people (who are caught) fall upon the unjust mercy of the court, or receive soft punishment.

Just to be clear, Hit and Run is FUCKED UP!!!!!!! I Empathize with your policy pursuits. I am not on some "other sides point of view" And I thank you for your prayers cause I feel like I am jeopardizing my life everyday.



nicorete
responding to a comment by Bikekowski
07.28.10 - 3:16 pm

reply


You and nicorete are both talking about changing a system that is vast and entrenched world wide. That system should change. We shouldn't have to put people in prisons I agree. But People shouldn't ever leave other people wounded and dieing in the street. Until that new enlightened system comes about, we have to deal with the tools on hand.

Let me put it like this, we know for a fact that hnr drivers rarely get caught and when they do, they rarely serve jail time. So we already know that not much is incentivizing drivers to stay.... Why don't you and nicorete put together a proposal that you think would give drivers a reason tm





Roadblock
responding to a comment by md2
07.28.10 - 3:39 pm

reply


You and nicorete are both talking about changing a system that is vast and entrenched world wide. That system should change. We shouldn't have to put people in prisons I agree. But People shouldn't ever leave other people wounded and dieing in the street. Until that new enlightened system comes about, we have to deal with the tools on hand.

Let me put it like this, we know for a fact that hnr drivers rarely get caught and when they do, they rarely serve jail time. So we already know that not much is incentivizing drivers to stay.... Why don't you and nicorete put together a proposal that you think would give drivers a reason to stay.






Roadblock
responding to a comment by md2
07.28.10 - 3:43 pm

reply


Until that new enlightened system comes about, we have to deal with the tools on hand

But we know prisons dont work <-- thats the point. You know Im down to support your efforts, but I think the progressive attitudes of MR owe it to themselves to be progressive with punishment too.

Questions and answers dont arise at the same time.






md2
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.28.10 - 4:01 pm

reply


Dear Troll, err Nicorete,

SWITRS data shows that 38% of all collisions in Los Angeles in 2008 were hit and run. It also shows that 23% of all collisions involving cyclists in Los Angeles in 2008 were hit and run. 2 points from that:

- Hit and run is epidemic
- Motorists involved in a collision are MORE likely to be the victim of a hit and run than cyclists (this is once the collision occurs - who is more likely to be hit, we can't determine due to a lack of data on cycling frequency)

You can offer all kinds of disclaimers that you empathize etc, but right now people are receiving your comments, I think rightly, as trollish devil's advocacy.



Alex Thompson
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.28.10 - 4:17 pm

reply


I am guessing that people run more often from car v. car incidents because they are often quite minor and figure that somebody else's "insurance company will pay for it".

Whatever the reason almost everybody who I have talked to about this issue from LAPD, to bike punks agrees that we need to reform hit and run laws.



trickmilla
responding to a comment by Alex Thompson
07.28.10 - 4:26 pm

reply


this is really what has not been articulated.

We do not know why people run. We think they run because they're scared of the consequences. But then we think they run because the consequence are not strong enough. Its paradoxical if you take both sides into account.

One of the best ideas I heard yesterday was: make it public that if you hit someone and stay at the scene, you will be dealt a less harsh penalty.

It has a childish tone to it, but it plays more into a compassionate society, rather than this black and white, tough on crime, Regan type justice. I think there are clear inconsistencies with the driver licenses suspensions (being revoked). Light community service gigs.

I think what victims need, but never receive is a remorseful guilty party. That's what makes me most upset. You really want to see this girl saying something like "I'm so fucking sorry, I cant believe I did this. what can I do to make this right, if there is anything I can do?"

That's kind of where my mindset is working from. Would you tell the girl: "go to jail". It sounds weird, right? Or is it just me?

I can see, "dont ever, ever drive again, drink again". You'd think she would never want to. I can see people in our community asking her to volunteer somewhere, to help others lives become better because she made another life worse.

thats not much of a proposal, but I'm not much of thinker. i just hope some of my wonders have a little bit of worth to them



md2
responding to a comment by trickmilla
07.28.10 - 4:42 pm

reply


"One of the best ideas I heard yesterday was: make it public that if you hit someone and stay at the scene, you will be dealt a less harsh penalty. "

I think that idea leaked out of my little stream of consciousness rant.

May have been a silly untenable idea.
But the bottom line is there must be some way to discourage running and encourage the taking of responsibility and staying.



trickmilla
responding to a comment by md2
07.28.10 - 5:03 pm

reply


Md2 you aren't quite Stating my position correctly when you describe it as paradoxical....

Hnr perpetrators are scared of the consequences of staying because staying will offer proof that they are drunk and thus, a much harsher penalty than getting a slap on the wrist. According to law, a drunk driver accident is supposed to spend 3 days in jail minimum from what I understand.... (I could be wrong) the drunk in this case is looking to avoid jail time. Attaching equal or greater jailtime for hnr will in my opinion reduce the incentive to run.

Reagan introduced outrageous sentences to drug offenders. That's a whole different issue of addiction and so forth.... Hnr is a crime of opportunity. It needs to have stiff consequences.

I'm not asking for a life sentence. I'm asking for a week or two. Plus education classes plus community service plus your drivers license is gone for 5 years. No car transpo even for work.

That's how serious this is. A person can die alone in the street they can bleed to death they can have massive hospital bills.... There needs to be a strong incentive not to do this.

How does Europe do it?



Roadblock
responding to a comment by md2
07.28.10 - 5:12 pm

reply


I agree - every fender bender that does a little damage between cars in the parking lot counts as hit and run - definitely that must pad the stats.



Alex Thompson
responding to a comment by trickmilla
07.28.10 - 5:12 pm

reply


we have a large prison population largely because of poverty and poverty-related crimes as well as mandatory minimum sentencing for nonviolent drug offenses.

hit-and-run is not a poverty crime. in the case of the 18-year-old girl who ran over my friend, she was actually very rich, and the well-paid attorney did everything in his power to get her a light sentence.

she took away my friend's freedom and didnt lose any of her own. i say mandatory minimum sentencing for hit and run with great bodily injury or death, NOT drug convictions. hard time for serious crimes.



tortuga_veloce
responding to a comment by nicorete
07.28.10 - 5:32 pm

reply


I know people were touting Europe as a great example of how countries should deal with hit and runs but my impression is that the big difference between the US and Europe are the drunk driving laws, rather than hit and run laws. Automatic license suspension or revocation for DUI is far more common. Penalties for hit and runs are not more harsh in Europe when compared to the US (I think).

In the UK, hit and run is known as "failure to stop". The maximum penalty is a fine (approx. $7500) and/or 6 months in prison plus 5-10 points on the driver's licence (if you get 12 then your license is gone). A driving ban can be imposed at the discretion of the court. Prison time is extremely unlikely. [b]The sentence for driving away is actually fairly minor.[/b] It is up to the prosecution to bring another charge to deal with the fact that the driver killed someone, usually "causing death by dangerous driving". This is what could carry a sentence of years in prison, automatic revocation of license, etc.

Despite the weak penalty for a hit and run in the UK only 10-15% of all collisions are hit and runs. Fuck, I can't believe I just said "only" for a statistic that means 1 in 7 drivers will leave the scene of a collision. Anyway. Maybe people are afraid of the Big Brother CCTV cameras.

I don't think there's a perfect, or even good, model out there to base our efforts on. Getting the penalty for hit and run raised to match that of a DUI plus an automatic driving ban for [X] years would be a great start.



Rach Stevo
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.28.10 - 6:24 pm

reply


I don't think there's a perfect, or even good, model out there to base our efforts on. Getting the penalty for hit and run raised to match that of a DUI plus an automatic driving ban for [X] years would be a great start.

it's time to set the standard. it's time to for california to be a leader in the nation and in the world.



tortuga_veloce
responding to a comment by Rach Stevo
07.28.10 - 6:26 pm

reply


Soooo............................................

What press came to this event?



sexy
07.28.10 - 10:04 pm

reply


No main stream media.



Roadblock
responding to a comment by sexy
07.28.10 - 10:31 pm

reply


It was actually okay, though, even though there was no non-bike blog press there. There were a lot of good ideas about different politicians to target, and different models and approaches to targeting the hit & run laws.

Big props to RB & AT/Bikeside LA for organizing it.





champagne
07.28.10 - 10:50 pm

reply


Great Video!
I just watched it.
Almost as good as being their, but with out the sticky residue.

You killed it Rick Darge!

Megaprops!



trickmilla
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.30.10 - 11:21 am

reply


powerful video. this will be very helpful in sharing this message.



kryxtanicole
responding to a comment by Roadblock
07.30.10 - 12:30 pm

reply

Reply


Who's been here recently...

jone333 | Rogerio Aminoff | tallcans4tallbikes | DETOXXX | elie1588 | fie01lds | sanny111