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Thread Box:
home invasion
Thread started by KiMS1 at 01.30.09 - 2:30 pm

ive noticed that there are a few men and women of the shield on MR and a few that are studying criminal law.


this has nothing to do with bikes. just a quick question.


if i was a registered gun owner and someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night and i shoot the person down, would i be in any trouble?

lets say the burglar was unarmed.


also,

ive heard stories bout how a burglar was attempting to break into a home but fell through the sky light, broke a leg, and successfully sued the homeowner.

if this is a true thing, how would one pull that off?

reply






Joe Borfo
01.30.09 - 2:33 pm

reply


aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrghhhhhhh

ive been trying to figure this out all day!!!!!!!!!!!!

gimme an answer borfo!




KiMS1
01.30.09 - 2:34 pm

reply


I need to go to work...but as soon as I get back I'll give you a detailed answer...





el_spaniard
01.30.09 - 3:28 pm

reply


I cant wait for this. Really. This sounds like an interesting question.



stillline
01.30.09 - 6:19 pm

reply


'merica.



canadienne
01.30.09 - 6:28 pm

reply


Answer;
what would a resonable man do,
If they were in fear of there life?

You must be in fear of your life to use deadly force'
even in if you are in your home or business.

Reasonable man defense.
Burglery or tresspassing is not justifiable.
you can not shoot someone over property theft.
only when that person becomes an attacker,
and you are in fear of your life.

Check out cal gov. penal codes. for more info on gun laws.



Dedicated818
01.30.09 - 6:55 pm

reply


my understanding is, you can defend yourself only if your life is threatened. If the assailant is attacking you with a weapon, you can defend yourself. If the person doesn't have a weapon or you shot them if they have their back towards you then it is not justified.

You could be liable for someone damages if it occurs on your property. Usually home owners have house insurance. So they would first try to collect from the insurance agency. If the insurance company pays the claim, then they pay the claim. If the injured party took you or your insurance company to court, that person would have to convince a jury that you where liable for their damages.

I don't know the ins and outs of a jury being able to ignore the fact that the person was on your property for nefarious reasons, or if it is not admissible to the trail.

You'll have to wait and see what El Spainard has to say.
Hope that holds you until then.



sexy
01.30.09 - 6:55 pm

reply


Tip;
store your pistol low close to the floor.
Most assailants will order you to the ground.
Revolvers work good for this application,
as they do not require magazine curculation, and can be left loaded for extended periods. plus it will work for sure.

You can get in big trouble leaving guns around where minors are present. Felony.



Dedicated818
01.30.09 - 7:02 pm

reply


@sexy
What kind of gun are you using where the assailant lives to sue you . I suggest upgading to .357 or 45
Dead men tell no tails.



Dedicated818
01.30.09 - 7:12 pm

reply


Read California Penal Code sections 197, 198, 198.5, & 199. They are all in relation to Justifiable Homicide.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=187-199

^^^Link To Penal Code Sections^^^

It is also a good idea to have a lawyer who specializes in firearms related cases on retainer. If you do not have the money for legal assistance, be prepared to deal with a public defender.

You cannot be a "Registered Gun Owner". Gun Owners are not registered in a system like child molester (Although that could change considering the political climate). Long Arms (Rifles & Shotguns) are not registered. Handguns are registered by serial number to an owner. Long arms can be purchased/owned by 18+ year old individuals who do not felony convictions, history of mental disorder, etcetc. Handguns (& handgun ammo) can only be purchased by 21+ year old individuals. And 18+ year old individual can OWN a handgun, but usually only obtain the firearm when gifted to them from a parent.

Good home defense firearms are handguns, shotguns, and for some scenarios...rifles. My home defense gun is a shotgun loaded with #4 buck to avoid overpenetration of walls (I live in an apartment). 00 Buck can also be used depending on where you live. Slugs are not recommended. Mossberg 500's & Remington 870's are great shotguns (not very expensive). Rifles (unless they are pistol caliber) are also prone to overpenetration, so their use as a Home Defense gun is limited. An AR-15 would make a good Home Defense rifle (AR's are expensive). Handguns are probably the best choice. You still need to take overpenetration into consideration when picking a handgun caliber. A revolver chambered in .357 Magnum, loaded with .38 special + P makes a good Home Defense gun. Smith & Wessons Model 686 5 Inch would be a good choice. A Glock chambered in 9mm would also be a good choice. A heavy jacketed hollow point bullet would do the job.

Take into consideration, that any firearm used in a Justifiable Homicide will be confiscated by the police for evidence and you may not get it back. Consider this if you want to buy an expensive Home Defense Gun. Also consider "Evil" looks. You don't want something that looks like its out of a war movie because when the firearms is presented in court (in a case against you...criminal or civil)...the jury WILL judge you. Keeping the firearms simple-looking and stock (no modifications) is a good idea.

If someone enters your home, the first thing you should do is call the cops IF YOU CAN. Then, your firearm should come out along with a bright flashlight. You are NOT expected to retreat from the threat in your own home (Google Castle Doctrine). Then follow the rules listed in the Penal code sections you read.

After the shooting, allow the police to arrive, and make sure your firearm is NOT in your hand (let the dispatcher now you shot an burglar who tried to kill you and let them know you no longer are holding a firearm).

When the police arrive, tell them you were in fear for your life and you want to speak to a lawyer...THEN SHUT THE FUCK UP. NO DETAILS. BURGLAR BROKE IN...ATTEMPTED TO KILL YOU...SHUT UP. DO NOT LIE OR EMBELLISH.

Aside from all of the above, get as much firearms training as possible. Take a few classes in home defense shooting. Also take into consideration that you will have a mess to clean up after you get home and the body is removed. Blood...brain matter...skull fragments...etc

Very important...once there is no longer a threat (say you shot the guy in the leg)...DO NOT USE ANYMORE FORCE. If you use force after the threat is no longer there...you become the aggressor. You can be charged with murder.

I also recommend that all family members know how to use the firearm proficiently and have access to the firearm.

I know I'm missing something...but this is the bulk of it...



el_spaniard
01.30.09 - 9:41 pm

reply


@Dedicated 818

The .357 Magnum & .45 ACP are EXCELLENT calibers...

BUT...HUGE BUT...

If you can't hit the side of a barn while standing INSIDE THE BARN...then it will not matter how big your gun is. You have to make sure that EVERY SINGLE MOTHERFUCKING BULLET that comes out of that firearm...has the bad guys name on it.

A .357 or .45 going through a wall because you missed can kill people you did not intend to kill. LIFE CHANGING EXPERIENCE.

Its all about shot placement. Shoot center mass and don't stop shooting until the threat is eliminated.

Basic Guideline...

Don't go any smaller than 9mm or .38 Special.



el_spaniard
01.30.09 - 9:50 pm

reply


DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES






Aqueous Atom
01.30.09 - 9:55 pm

reply


@ el spanyard
you left out the use of fragmenting rounds such as the Glazer safety slug. Ya if you live in a close quarters such as an apt .caution should be taken not to take out your nieghbors.
A 12 gauge is a good choice also, and very intimidating.

There seems to be a double standard when it comes to law enforcement vs citizen.

Often when law enforcement ingauges suspects they unload with rounds going everywhere.




Dedicated818
01.31.09 - 12:44 am

reply


Y'all need to just learn some Kung Fu and stop playing video games.

Unless you're a Vietnamese refugee during the 1980s living in Orange County, your odds of needing to defend yourself against a home invasion robbery with a gun are about the same as getting struck by lightning.

All the bad guys work on Wall Street, they's moved on.



cabhauler
01.31.09 - 1:02 am

reply


@ el spanyard
Also I hope your not suggesting that cant shoot.
When I was qaulifiing for my CCW, I was going for several calibers on my permit. The instuctor only gave us one target. when I asked what if all my rounds go through the center how will you be able to tell ? He said if you can do that I will pass you on all calibers and you can go home early. I went home early, as I used my tuned
1911 grouping all the shots in the center. Real life? adrenialane ?
maybe a different story.



Dedicated818
01.31.09 - 1:04 am

reply


@ cabhauler
My next door nieghbor was a victim of a home invasion, I live in a so called good area of SFV, Studio City.
And I prefer Ninjitsu over Kung Fu.



Dedicated818
01.31.09 - 1:09 am

reply


*COUGH*bikes*COUGH*



Joe Borfo
01.31.09 - 1:12 am

reply


@ joe
but what if the bad guys came for my bikes ?



Dedicated818
01.31.09 - 1:20 am

reply


@Dedicated 818

I made no assumptions about your shooting skills. Sorry if the reply came off that way.

The main problem is the whole "Knockdown Power" argument that has been re-hashed dozens of times on gun forums I frequent. Some people have a skewed perception on how big bullets will kill even if they take off the tip of someone finger. That example, of course, is exaggerated. But I've seen gang members on the street take a .357 to the abdomen, and stand their and show it off. There is also the guy who was shot 9-16 times with police calibers (since you mention police shootings) and still gets to breath. And then there is the guy who takes a .22 center mass and bleeds out.

Its all about vital organs.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm a big fan of the 1911 & M14 replacing the current military service rifles. Though, it is true the M14 is not suited for all possible combat situations. That is where the AR comes out on top. Not to mention both are damned accurate.



el_spaniard
01.31.09 - 9:13 am

reply


@el spanyard
M14 / M1a, Ar 15 pretty radical for home defense.
These are for when all bets are off, shit hits the fan.

The advantage to M1a is that it uses a NATO round.
And is a true battlefield rifle with superior range.

When NATO troops come up through Mexico to impose martial law on U.S. citizens, Ammunition cas be striped from dead NATO soldiers to be reused by patriots.






Dedicated818
01.31.09 - 1:28 pm

reply


Bikes not bullets.



madmike
01.31.09 - 1:55 pm

reply


Calling all Mall Ninjas...

Which gun would provide the best protection against the jellyfish invasion? Could a jellyfish sue you if it broke a tentacle on your property?



nathansnider
01.31.09 - 2:54 pm

reply


@818

I would not use an M1A or AR15 for home defense. But then again, everyone's situation is different. An M1A is WAY over the top for almost ANY home defense situation. An AR-14...not so much...if you live out in the sticks...it could make good sense to use one for home defense. Also great for keeping critters off your property.

What I was trying to say was that I am a firm believer in "Coffee can filled with concrete" sized calibers. Hence, I believe the military should switch to some old goodies.





el_spaniard
01.31.09 - 3:12 pm

reply


@nathansnider

You may want to consult a lawyer, sir.

And if your looking for Mall Ninjas...your on the wrong forum...only hipsters here.



el_spaniard
01.31.09 - 3:13 pm

reply


Man, these gun threads are awesome! If we can just add some discussion on German cars and cigars, I think we can hit the macho BS trifecta.

Go team!

Nathansnider - Jellyfish do not currently have standing in U.S. Courts. However, being immortal and extraordinarily powerful, they have no need of the court system for THEIR retribution. Do not ask how to kill them, you do not want to risk the consequences of doing so.





JB
01.31.09 - 5:48 pm

reply


@nate
@Jb
For guys that have a anti firearm / anti 2nd amendment agenda,
you seem to be interested in these firearms threads posting nonsense to validate yourselfs.

Similar to in the closet !@#$?fobic bi curios types.



Dedicated818
01.31.09 - 7:07 pm

reply


ur moms bi curious



Drooby420
01.31.09 - 7:12 pm

reply


All this talk is getting my FUN GUN HARD!!!

Damn you guys are good!!!!

Give it to me baby!!!

YEAH!!!!



User1
01.31.09 - 7:23 pm

reply


@User1

There's more where that came from baby...

I can keep that FUN GUN HARD so long you'll have to go to the hospital...

Just give the order big boy...



el_spaniard
02.1.09 - 2:02 am

reply


@JB

I could give two shits about cars...of any type...

And cigarettes rub me just the right way...no need for expensive cigars...



el_spaniard
02.1.09 - 2:04 am

reply


I could also give two shits about the meth-heads that haul ass down Hesperia Rd and can't leave shit well enough alone.

Up here, I'm definitely looking into purchasing some firepower, the idiots driving the vehicles up here feel threatened enough by one guy on a bicycle to come back with 3-4 people.


On a side note, it stays up here.



bentstrider
02.1.09 - 2:09 am

reply

Reply


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