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theres A TON of drama behind this ride. talking about creating a "safe space" for african american riders and whatnot. the guy that is hosting it is james spooner aka RAZZLE from kidney room records in the 90s. he used to do the same stuff back then, but it was for women in hardcore and stuff like that.
jspooners post on lafxd about this was something like "have you ever been on a ride and seen another african american rider, and wanted to say hello, but couldnt? nows your chance!" and thats kind of stupid. why would you not feel comfortable talking to someone on one ride, but be 100% ok with it on another ride? maybe its just the way he worded it that rubs everyone the wrong way.
its freaking people out because no one really seems to make race an issue on these rides. it doesnt matter what color you are, what religion you are, how fat, how skinny, how short, or how tall you are. we all enjoy riding bikes in this city and that is why we come together.
and no, razzle is black. he also did the AFROPUNK documentary a few years ago.
well is it exclusive ONLY to blacks or can other's come?...I mean I s'pose people can have rides jst for one group of people...thought there are rides that are JUST for women...eh to each his own...ill be there...
That's so dumb having a blacks only ride. Just think of all the shit the person that posted a whites only ride would deal with. What's the difference between having one or the other? They're both segregating.
If I was black I'd be into trying out a blacks-only ride. Its a social experiment, not a protest of Whities. I'd be into trying a half-white half-mexicans only ride, marcus's-only ride, or a freak bikes only, or a or a narcissist-only ride, or a
Who cares? There's plenty of ride concepts to go around. This isnt a fascist situation, and you arent being forced to go on this ride. I'm sure if you really want to go to their ride and you're crazy enough to go, they wont tell you to fuck off.
On the other hand, I will tell you to fuck off for non-freak bikes on a Los Angelopes Level Two. Yes, I'm a Bike-cist.
i agree with making a ride exclusive only to black people or to a certain religion, etc is lame and retarded. But what is the difference between GOGA or the beers and queers ride? The point is to get people who feel out of place or otherwise do not "feel" like they should be on a bike to get on a bike. I get the same looks from hipster, gangsters, and even black people when i ride like wtf? I would assume that it is because i am on a bike flying through traffic but...sometimes it is because i am african. On most of these rides, or at the DIY shops seeing african americans is scarce. Im glad the man is trying to open our minds to other things.
Point blank and simple...the cat should have worded it differently. And to all those who think it is a bad idea to show up to the ride,or that it is prejudice, attend this ride and let them/us know that it is okay to be hippies on bikes too!!! Bikes belong between EVERYONES legs....
"The point is to get people who feel out of place or otherwise do not "feel" like they should be on a bike to get on a bike."
I'm sure there's white supremacists that feel the same way too. You're ok with them putting a ride together to make them feel comfortable?
There's alot better ways to get more people of color on bikes. Alot better than to announce a ride that's exclusively for a race of people. Also that's far different than having a ride for cruisers, girls, fixies, etc, etc.
I'd prefer half-white-half-mexicans only ride, but I guess if I can go to Whites Only, I can go to Mexicans Only too. That's the beauty of being a mutt!
Attention Black Bike Riders.
(and to the non black riders, please tell your black friends, solidarity helps us all)
Ever been on one of the many organized bike rides in LA, seen another black person and thought "Would it be weird If I say hi?".
It isn't weird, and you should say hi. This is your chance.
I'm pleased to announce the FREEDOM RIDES. This one is for the brothers and sisters.
I want to invite all black riders of every skill set, regardless of bike (road, track, cruiser, mountain) to come and meet your fellow Black, bike enthusiasts. Take a ride around Los Angeles with us, Sunday Feb 22nd. We will be meeting at Bikestyler Customs on Melrose and Larchmont at noon. We start pedaling at 1pm. (NO CP TIME haha!)
Route TBA.
CONTACT JAMES (AT) AFROPUNK (DOT) COM with questions, comments, sugeestions etc.
FREEDOM RIDES
Black SOLIDARITY Bicycle Ride
Sunday FEB 22.
Gather at Noon, Ride at 1pm
Meet at BIKESTYLER CUSTOMS - 5621 Melrose ave @ Larchmont, Los Angeles, CA 90038
where in this mans post is nationalism???
"solidarity helps us all..."
where is he being exclusive?...you guys really should not be scared of this ride...i for one will be there, with a hangover
It's just fucking stupid to have a ride based on skin color. If he wanted to assimilate with the group ride, why have a ride that excludes most of the group he's trying to assimilate in?
And you asked where his nationalizing? ( I think )
One example is in "I want to invite all black riders"
And Marcus, I wasn't trying to promote a white only ride. I was just wondering where your support was for whites only ride, since you support blacks only ride.
I love BikeStyler. as I understand it one of the partners is My man TOONS who is a stand up cat. known dude for years and years and years. I back that cat 110%.
I dont think I've met jspooner but maybe a better way to have thrown this ride is to have made it clear that its open invite and perhaps even a "invite your friends of color ride" but I too was wondering whether I could go or not... the verbage isnt totally clear...
alan u went far beyond the point of my statement...bike riding is not to promote a sense of elitism, and thats what white supremacy is...(and the westside...joking)
also if u quote something i type u really should quote the whole and not the half...its like watching fox news.
and that "whites only" rebuttal concept doesnt hold water. for racism to exist there must be power. in other words it is not racism to rise against an ethinic group that holds power over you. it is resistance and empowerment.
So you don't have a problem if there's white supremacists, yet they don't make their stance known, but announce a whites only ride? They pretty much subsitute black for white in the ad above. You're fine with that?
im with roadblock...im bringing a non black friend too...
i'm done alan, you are a cool cat but it sounds like your mind is made up. to continue this would be a waste of my time...i would really like to get back to work now. HA!!!
"No RB, you can be black and be racist, Mexican and be racist, Jew and be racist, Asian and be racist, white and be racist, the examples go on and on."
depends on how you define the word racism.... there is not a universally accepted definition.
if one ethnic group oppresses another I agree that's racism. if the oppressed ethnic group resists the former.... is that racism?
"i'm done alan, you are a cool cat but it sounds like your mind is made up. to continue this would be a waste of my time...i would really like to get back to work now. HA!!!"
"if one ethnic group oppresses another I agree that's racism. if the oppressed ethnic group resists the former.... is that racism?"
it's racism if they use the same tactics that the former used. elitism, generalizations, stereotypes, etc.
what's so confusing about all this is the fact that racism tends to come naturally when you've been oppressed by another race. many people don't realize they're racist, an assume it's just hate for "the man" that's been keeping them down.
The definition I like the best that defines racism is the first one below. The different definitions are taken from wiki.
"According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups. The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular racial group, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief. The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: "the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."
""According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups. The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular racial group, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief. The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: "the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others." "
thats certainly a few definitions there... but who wrote that shit? fucking white people.
fuck... why am I back here falling into the alan vortex again? good bye forever!!
"and that "whites only" rebuttal concept doesnt hold water. for racism to exist there must be power. in other words it is not racism to rise against an ethinic group that holds power over you. it is resistance and empowerment."
by my definition, separatism is the seed of racism. it is also the seed of empowerment, and that's the fine line. i know latinos who feel that their children should only speak spanish in the house, to protect and promote their culture, and to inspire confidence in them. some of them also want them to learn english, and others teach their children to resist learning english and to hate America and Americans for what our leaders have done to their homelands.
I don't think there is anything inherantly wrong with the freedom ride. i'm simply curious as to what motivated the ride organizer to feel this was something that he needed to do, and perhaps if he would feel differently if he had been on more inter-racial rides. i don't know who he is, but if he's listening, I'd love to know!
I actually have all kinds of mixed feelings about this and I do actually agree with alan a slight bit (hard as it is to admit). because ultimately I think that it's bad strategy even for the oppressed to band together under the flag of race because the end result is that if they win with that line of thinking then they become the racist oppressors... but the point I'm trying to make is that we should all just go to this ride and LOVE ourselves into the mix and just show that solidarity has nothing to do with exclusion and everything to do with unity. Unity is Strength!
yeah, its nice to discuss but after everyones said their opinion and people start posting up definitions from a dictionary, i dunno.
i heard the ammonia comes from ur body finishing off glucose reserves in ur liver and moving onto stored fats. ammonia is given off during that chemical reaction.
Yeah...so...I don't care one way or the other about this ride, but I guess I would like to know what exactly about this ride has got you all whinnying and neighing so hard. As distinct from GOGA, Sirens, Beers Gears & Queers, etc. You all didn't say shit about those, but now all of a sudden it's like somebody fucked your mom.
P.S. I almost wrote "its like a black guy fucked your mom," but then I was all like, Would that be crossing a line? Is that too much? Would I have gotten away with that?
i love the idea of unity... but in a more broad and inclusive kinda way. i understand we all come from different backgrounds and it feels great to be around those that are like us... but we've gotta get outta the comfort zone and make every group our group. as positive as this ride is... i can't help but think it could also manage to segregate people.
lets drink all nite on crank mob.drink more sunday morning.then show up to this ride.if they dont want us then just do the first
midnight stalkers ride.............
I never support any ride that excludes another based on something we can't choose. This ride is one of them. Sirens is another. GOGA, Beers and Queers, all of them are not something I enjoy in anyway.
I can't support anything that causes different groups to further their distance from others. I like seeing everyone as a single group. I don't care what religion, sex, race, etc you are, we are all cyclists, and that's how I act around you.
That doesn't mean I am against these rides. I understand that me being born the way I am, I can't experience what many groups experience every day. However, I have an issue with noticing race at all. I don't see people as colors, I see them as assholes, nice, or some other assortment of personality types.
I've been a part of lots of groups my life, and when I was more political I could never figure out why people didn't trust me, or acted in a way that belittled me until I realized I was the only white person there. I'm all for creating a comfort zone for everyone, but I don't see segregation as a key to this.
**The only type of people I can't get along with easily is furries, but only because I find them creepy. Sorry furries, if you have a furry only ride, expect me to cause a shitstorm.**
I understand the desire to create a ride where black ridazz are comfortable with approaching each other, but i really don't feel like this is a problem on MR. i can't recall a time when i felt put out by a stranger, and i'm even accepted for my sometimes grating personality. hell, we even let User1 hang out with us. (just kidding, buddy.)
my point is, we're not some sort of exclusive club: that's the point. and i know that a lot of us really believe in that to their core. i'd really like to hear what the ride organizer thinks of all this, but regardless, its been fascinating to hear how everyone reacts to the concept.
with regard to goga, air raid sirens, and beers queers and gears: i think there might be some validity to the fact that girls do have valid things in common: a little slower, tired of getting hit on, etc, and the gays might want to bond in ways that make straight people uncomfortable.
i cant say why the organizer believes this is a good idea, or if it's right or wrong. that's just my two cents.
Luckily with me, it's all about wanting to see others on bicycles, period.
I've already dealt with plenty of scenarios wear I've been the "fish-out-of-water" to the point where I could stumble into any race-associated summit of any type, and not realize it until someone firmly points it out to me.
I'm not ignorant, I could just be oblivious to the obvious sometimes.
I think some folks here might profitably pause to reflect upon the difference between loudly proclaiming oneself to be inclusive and actually being inclusive. If you guys are as open-minded as you like to think you are, then by all means, unclench your sphincters a little bit and let this guy and his friends and his fellow Af-Am ridazz (those who are interested) have their bonding ride. I'm pretty sure they won't fuck your mom.
And when I say "Af-Am," I of course mean "Ancient Free & Accepted Masons." When will the disgraceful anti-Masonic prejudice in the bike scene end? WHEN?
Guess what friends its happening again. and again .. and again. Turns out every black rider we talk to is excited about this ride. For quite a few its there first organized ride.
So here's the deal. Just to clear it up. We dont hate anyone. Were all active members of the cycling community, you probably get helped by us at the bike co-op and ride next to us on other rides. Thing is our experiences in everyday life make it so its nice to just decompress with people who have similar backgrounds. Think of it like, when you go to a punk show and everyone has headbands and american apparel clothes on. Feels nice after a day of feeling weird at school or work doesn't it? Anyway if you don't understand that's okay. If your not into it. Thats okay too.
This ride is for black people who once a month want to get together ride bikes. Were not building pipe bombs or planning a race war. Were black kids on bikes. Get used to it.
Now for all the people who are just super upset or confused or just want to be heard on the subject, why not do some good and email me. Were making a documentary about the ride and just the kind of reactions you are having. You bring up valid and interesting points (some of you). We would love to have you raise them on tape. Unless of course you need the anonymity of the web to express yourself honestly as of yet no one has said anything negative to our faces. Curious.
FREEDOM RIDES
Black SOLIDARITY Bicycle Ride
Sunday MARCH 22.
Gather at Noon, Ride at 1pm
Meet at BIKESTYLER CUSTOMS - 5621 Melrose ave @ Larchmont, Los Angeles, CA 90038
PS. The same ride is starting in chicago in a month or so. Turns out black kids like the idea there too. Gotta wonder why its catching on so quickly.
This ride is for black people who once a month want to get together ride bikes. Were not building pipe bombs or planning a race war. Were black kids on bikes. Get used to it.
the civil rights movement takes a step back, whatever happened to aboloshing segregation, didn't realize this was Mississippi Ridazz i think they still tolerate some of that shit down there no?
and as much as i didnt want that to turn into an asian-white joke it did. i was trying to point out the different colors they use on the road to pain but...
The idea of this ride has annoyed me since day one.I'm not sure if "jspooner" is the same person responsible for the afropunk doc or just someone just running off the same idea,but there were things in the documentary that I really admired and I really hated."This ride is for black people who once a month want to get together ride bikes. Were not building pipe bombs or planning a race war. Were black kids on bikes. Get used to it."Fuck that!!!Start your cry for equality else where.MR has never cared about your color,your bike,or your budget,it is for everyone,and this sad attempt at some kind of unneeded civil action is just a step back of blacks and for ridazz.I myself am biracial and I have grown up in cali and far less understanding regions.I truthfully don't see color I see assholes and friends.It's not hard to be considered a friend but as I grow older I find it is even easier for me to think you're an asshole.I will admit that we as a society have alot of growing to do but I thing you should beat your protest drums at some other rally or focus on making these streets safer for your "brother and sisters of the wheel" and stop wasting time making it about color and ride you bike.
P.S. If jspooner has more to say about this I would love to sit down and have a cup of coffee and talk about it.I'll buy you a cup.You can have you're coffee black I'll have mine with cream.
"White privilege, like any social phenomenon, is complex. In a white supremacist culture, all white people have privilege, whether or not they are overtly racist themselves. There are general patterns, but such privilege plays out differently depending on context and other aspects of one's identity (in my case, being male gives me other kinds of privilege)."
"by making your ride exclusive to one race you're perpetuating racism."
You couldn't possibly believe this AND think it is an opinion worth expressing, even on the internet. It's laughable and the ignorance embedded in it makes me feel bad for you.
please, there's nothing wrong with being egalitarian.
how is it ignorant?
how could you actually support a ride that seperates us through color?
racism is a tool and even if you think you're using it in positive ways, you're not.
No one is denying that hasn't been racism in the past. What people above are saying is that you don't fight racism with racism. Everything on MR has been free, for the most part, of any racism. What this ride does, is introduce the board to it, and sets the tone for other racist rides. If there's a blacks only ride advertised, what's the problem with having a whites only ride advertised?
@anyone who has a problem with this ride- i'm just curious...
... if the ride were to include "allies of black ridazz," would you be as adamant against the concept of the ride?
I just don't see a point in making it about color on any level.If you want more black kids on bikes,well then tell your black friends to come to a ride.There is no reason for this ride,bring everyone from the freedom ride to CM or to the people's ride.Be proud of who your are and where your family has come from and what they have fought for,but don't build needless walls that destroy all the progress that was done before your time.
do you feel there is ever a time and space for marginilized and/or minority communities (eg. LGBT communities, women, etc.) to come together and feel empowered together by doing something positive in- common like riding a bike?
"Rather..
The ride should have been inclusive for everyone but celebrating black riders."
if this is people's general sentiment, i hope we can all agree with that. after all, Malcom X did die in the arms of a militant asian woman by the name of Yuri Kochiyama.
all i was trying to get at is that, things like this can be positive in done correctly. The "Black is Beautiful" movement was not born by black people simply assimilating with the majority.
the exclusiveness of the ride is a separate issue...
Having a ride revolving around someone's lifestyle or even someone's sex is different than one revolving around someone's race. A certain lifestyle does not exclude someone based on race, and neither does an all female ride. Plus there's a legitimate reason why girls would want to do a all female ride. Admittedly excluding a sex from the ride comes pretty close to the same thing as excluding a race from the ride. So one would look at the benefit of it verses opposing it. I don't see anyone opposing it.
sciencefriction -
"the exclusiveness of the ride is a separate issue..."
Me -
No, it's the issue. This is what people have been saying all along. Do not make this an exclusive ride based on your race being the deciding factor if you get in or not. If you do, then take it else where.
@user1, that's why my first question was if people would have minded if the invitation was also directed at allies...
i'm trying to separate the issue of
#1 ride concept that supports black riders (i support)
from the issue of
#2 excluding non-black riders (i don't support).
"Having a ride revolving around someone's lifestyle or even someone's sex is different than one revolving around someone's race. A certain lifestyle does not exclude someone based on race, and neither does an all female ride."
I don't see the difference...in these cases you would NOT be targeting
#1 heterosexuals or
#2 males
in an effort to bring together these minority/marginilized communities in a space where they can relate to each other in a setting tailored to making them feel comfortable with their unique identity.
Anyways, if you still disagree, I have nothing that will change your mind nor the energy to type about it on a forum.
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Ridazz Roulette!
Guess what friends its happening again. and again .. and again. Turns out every black rider we talk to is excited about this ride. For quite a few its there first organized ride.