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Thread Box:
Idaho Stop Sign Law
Thread started by mr rollers at 05.3.09 - 9:18 pm

OK, how many of you know about this:

http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title49/T49CH7SECT49-720.htm

Essentially the law (which has been in effect since 1982) allows bicyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs and red lights as stop signs.

An attempt was made recently to get a similar law passed in Oregon, but didn't happen for a variety of reasons.

Yeah, it may be a way off here, but we can dream right? If they have in Idaho, how radical can it be? How & why did stop signs come into being in the first place and why was it decided that they had to apply to bikes? If a law is unjust, why shouldn't we work to change it?

Jeez, I'm full of questions tonight . . .

reply


I tried to interest people here in pushing for a law like this, and got naysayed to death. The end.



PC
05.3.09 - 9:35 pm

reply


i would dig it.



Frozen Fingersss
05.3.09 - 9:36 pm

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Sorry PC, I must have been absent that day.

It could be a way off, but if they have it in another state in our fine country, then why not here?



mr rollers
05.3.09 - 9:42 pm

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its not like we already dont treat them like yields anyway



angrytoaster30
05.3.09 - 9:43 pm

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i totally disagree
if we want to have the same respect as drivers do we got to follow the same rules.

share the road, not segregate it.



aksendz
05.3.09 - 11:15 pm

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I say we segregate it so when we have a conversation with a cop, they don't have a reason to say, "This road was built for cars, not bicycles," and we don't have to stand around like idiots talking to a brick wall.



imachynna
05.3.09 - 11:18 pm

reply


well I'm thinking beyond that.
when sharing the road is practice and allowed and encouraged



aksendz
05.3.09 - 11:24 pm

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if we want to have the same respect as drivers do we got to follow the same rules.

There's no such thing as "the same rules." It doesn't work that way. Different kinds of road users already have different rules--there are places that cars can go but not big trucks and vice versa, different speed limits for cars vs. trucks, different licensing requirements for vehicles with different number of axles, etc. There's nothing new or radical about different rules for different vehicles / devices.



PC
05.3.09 - 11:34 pm

reply


those rules are vehicle specific.
but the same core rules should apply to all vehicles
stop means stop and red means red.



aksendz
05.3.09 - 11:37 pm

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Ah. Now, refresh my memory...this was chiseled by Jehovah onto which stone tablet, exactly? I just want to know, so that I can explain to my flock of followers what makes those particular traffic standards immutable.



PC
05.3.09 - 11:46 pm

reply


PC is right.

"but the same core rules should apply to all vehicles
stop means stop and red means red. "

Just because the rules apply doesn't mean that people follow them.



imachynna
05.3.09 - 11:51 pm

reply


aksendz you are out of your element.


PC is always right.





la duderina
05.3.09 - 11:59 pm

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I have been looking for a project for next semester. I think this should be it.

Mr. Rollers, PC, I am on this like white on rice. It is senseless for us to have to make complete stops. I think this should go for red lights, too, not just stop signs.

Like the video says, we know we are going to die if we get hit by a car, so why would we ever ride recklessly into an intersection? yeah



la duderina
05.4.09 - 12:09 am

reply


stop playing high school and get off pc's cock.

the majority, being like 99%, of being in the civilized follow agreed upon laws.

you know, like the people on your side of the road go in one way.
the same laws that establish order in daily living

-righty tighty lefty loosy,
-English/Metric measuring system
-measurements of time.
-grammar rules

sure some idiots don't follow them, and they are ostracized.

i want equality, not special treatment.



aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:09 am

reply


@Duderina
GTFO

@Aksendz
You don't follow grammar rules! Haa hoo haa!



imachynna
05.4.09 - 12:11 am

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WOW.
have fun with all the people who speed thru yellows
are you so oblivious that traffic in los angeles is so bad that cars turn on red, after missing there 'yellow' window of time.





aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:12 am

reply


Your initial comment was uncalled for. I suggest in the future you refrain from making such statements, as it only serves to offend whomever you are debating, thus causing them to not want to listen to what you have to say.

And I would love to tear a thousand holes in your weak excuse for an argument, but alas I have bigger fish to fry and so I will leave that to PC.



la duderina
05.4.09 - 12:13 am

reply


its the internet, I never follow grammar rules...or any rules
pfft 18yrs and older my ass :]

initial comment being my first comment or my previous post?

oh and you might want to consider this

Los Angeles is 9x larger in population versus the whole state of Idaho as of 2008

Hmm, ask your self if this has anything to do with traffic conditions?

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Population Division

Your initial comment was uncalled for. I suggest in the future you refrain from making such statements, as it only serves to offend whomever you are debating, thus causing them to not want to listen to what you have to say.

And I would love to tear a thousand holes in your weak excuse for an argument, but alas I have bigger fish to fry and so I will leave that to PC.



aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:16 am

reply


"WOW.
have fun with all the people who speed thru yellows
are you so oblivious that traffic in los angeles is so bad that cars turn on red, after missing there 'yellow' window of time. "

Check this out.



imachynna
05.4.09 - 12:16 am

reply


thank for proving my point chynna?



aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:20 am

reply


aksendz, I am sorry. You are a nice kid and all, but you aren't all that bright, are you?



la duderina
05.4.09 - 12:21 am

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righty tighty lefty loosy,

I'll keep that in mind next time I'm tightening my lockring.

-English/Metric measuring system

I'll keep that in mind as I drive to the AM/PM to buy a gallon of gasoline and a two-liter bottle of Mountain Dew.

-measurements of time.

I'll keep that in mind next time I have to adjust my clock forward or back one hour, so that farmers and factory workers during the First World War can make more corn and bombs. Meanwhile, can I borrow a hundred bucks? I'll pay you back next February 29.

-grammar rules

Ah, now there are some rules that never change. And thank God for that! There's nothing I love better than hanging around with my friends, drinking some brewskies and chatting casually in the subjunctive mood. But may I ask why you're not capitalizing your nouns?





PC
05.4.09 - 12:23 am

reply


@la dude: It's nice that you're backing my play and all, but GTFO.



PC
05.4.09 - 12:28 am

reply


that link summarized how nyc and la are so different, hence why the chaos in nyc cannot be emulated in la.

so far I have been citing and backing up my arguments.
all you guys do is assume.

and yes PC, keep that in mind.

by the way, if the most bicycle friendly state has rejected this...don't you think it means something....




aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:31 am

reply


so far I have been citing and backing up my arguments.

You have arguments? Where?



PC
05.4.09 - 12:35 am

reply


alright this was fun.
sleep time.
we'll discuss some more tomorrow :]

PC your tee milk tastes good.




aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:36 am

reply


teet*



aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:36 am

reply


It's not even that I'm backing you PC, but backing my own opinion. It is safer for us to roll through stops. This is something I feel strongly about and would very much like to act upon. Actually, I thought it highly coincidental that Rollers brought this up as I was thinking just yesterday that this is a project that I want to take on.

aksendz, you are an inexperienced rider. I have been riding longer than you have been alive. literally. You honestly just don't know shit.



la duderina
05.4.09 - 12:37 am

reply


I'm going.



la duderina
05.4.09 - 12:38 am

reply


I would love if this were the situation in california. It would encourage more people to ride bikes too.



Roadblock
05.4.09 - 12:42 am

reply


duderina, that does mean that you waive yer ghost bike when you get hit by a speeding car, knock on wood

wow really, pulling that card.
oh yeah well I've been driving for a year and I can tell you that cyclists are going to be in more danger.
pissing of drivers and getting hit by cars






aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:43 am

reply


Don't want to lose this gem,


I tried to interest people here in pushing for a law like this, and got naysayed to death. The end.

PC
05.4.09 - 12:35 am





aksendz
05.4.09 - 12:44 am

reply


aksendz, did you watch that video? did you comprehend it? do you understand what a rolling stop is?


I dont even know why I am asking...the obvious answer to those three questions is no.l



la duderina
05.4.09 - 12:53 am

reply


Not to be a dick, aksendz, but I've concluded that irony is wasted on you. So here's the point I'm making: the rules of order that (theoretically) make our day-to-day lives easier and safer can be, should be, and often are changed to reflect different circumstances and changing times.

The earth doesn't revolve around the sun exactly once every 365 days, so we have leap years*. Right-handed threading is counterproductive in some applications, so we have left-handed threading for lockrings and pedals and such. Communication needs change and language evolves, and the rules of grammar eventually change as well. Units of measurement for weights, dimensions, and volumes become more or less useful and are adopted, changed, or discarded accordingly (often in a less-than-logical way, as with the USA's halfhearted adoption of the metric system). Sometimes emergent circumstances or good old physics will call for tweaks in the rules, and so we get daylight savings time and different speed limits for trucks.

No rule devised by humans for the benefit of humans is immutable. There is no rule made up by people that can't be changed, so trying to "argue" (for lack of a better word) against changing a rule by pointing out that rules exist and are beneficial is futile and silly. Are you following me here? I can do this in Morse Code if you want.

*And leap seconds, too...but I don't want to blow your mind too much in one post, so forget I said that.



PC
05.4.09 - 12:59 am

reply


A, you told me personally that when you first started riding, you rode on the sidewalks.

I moved to LA for the first time this past August with nothing but a bike. Since the first time I hit these gritty streets I have been ON the road, NOT the sidewalk, rolling stop signs, rolling reds, crossing to the left lane to make left turns, sometimes riding on the wrong side of the street to make left turns. People who know how to ride ride this way, and know that it is safe and efficient if you know what you are doing. You, aksendz, do not know what you are doing and there for should just STFU.










and yes, PC I am leaving. It is useless arguing with nitwits.





la duderina
05.4.09 - 1:01 am

reply


What I'm trying to make you understand is that this won't work in Los Angeles.

-higher congestion
-wider, bigger streets
-much larger population
-majority of intersections have obstructed corners

-plus, how will one be able to argue that they yielded at a stop sign and performed a 'rolling stop'

there is a reason why cars have to fully stop, so there won't be that gray area.

PC, but the same core rules exists. only specific cases have exceptional rules.





aksendz
05.4.09 - 7:26 am

reply


anyways, since neither of us are budging ima stop arguing.

this was fun :]





aksendz
05.4.09 - 7:34 am

reply


What a fun thread to wake up to.
aksendz- Dear, shut up.You have no idea what you're talking about.
mr rollers, la duderina, PC- I'd love to see this happen here. Count me in on any efforts to make it happen.

Also, you could been at polo instead of arguing on the interwebs! Imagine how much more fun that would have been!



danya
05.4.09 - 8:08 am

reply


It may have been fun for you aksendz, but it wasn't fun to read!

It is agravating to read your uninformed opinion. It really does appear that you neither know how to ride a bike nor drive a car. And unfortunately for the rest of us, you do both.

But hey, you got me to come out in support of changing the law in California!



gregb
05.4.09 - 8:28 am

reply


I agree with the Idaho law and would be willing to help try to make it happen here in Los Angeles.

And while I agree with aksendz in regard to earning respect from drivers as a legit form of transportation, I'd also have to agree with his opposition....

I think that bicycles and cars can share the road, with slightly different laws governing them. I think it actually assists with car traffic if cyclists treat stop signs as yields because it can take so much more time to get back up on your bike and get up to a reasonable speed. I also find that cars are often confused by the sight of a cyclist at a stop and upon seeing them will allow them to go, even if it's not their turn.

If there were signs posted alerting drivers to "special" rules for cyclists, I think it would further legitimize cycling as regular transportation because cyclists would be specifically acknowledged o the street instead of just the cursory and vague "Bike route."

I mean, bicycles already can't go on the freeway...which is fine I think. When I drive, I am just as cautious about sharing the streets as I am on a bicycle, and when I get on the freeway it's like getting on a bike path...you can go faster with theoretically less hazards.

I am just saying that a car and a bicycle are not the same things, and I feel that a lot of the conflict that arises between the two comes from ignorance of the law and inadequate education on how to deal with each other safely and courteously.

Ya know?



HappyLand
05.4.09 - 8:39 am

reply


But oh...no, I wouldn't mind a bike lane on the freeway, but such lanes need to be more properly maintained. There's a bike lane on the 23 Fwy (I've yet to go on it, but my dad says it's an unfortunate mess)...so to modify what I said earlier...I think that bikes could go on the freeway with a dedicated and maintained bike lane.

I mean, going fast is going fast ; }



HappyLand
05.4.09 - 8:44 am

reply


Good video above - thanks for picking this up & running with it. Like I said, I'm not expecting to see this overnight; I can foresee a lot of objection and ridicule, but I'm more & more convinced of the rightness of it. The simple fact is that most of us here ride this way already.

One further point I'll add is that rolling a stop is actually SAFER if done properly - by conserving momentum, a rider is able to clear the intersection quicker, thus removing themselves from one of the most dangerous areas of the road.



mr rollers
05.4.09 - 8:54 am

reply


well you romantics have fun :]
so how's the guerilla gardening going guys?
lots of progress.

most of you are all talk
but if for once you actually do something instead of talking
that would be awesome





aksendz
05.4.09 - 9:01 am

reply


oh and thank your mr.rollers for actually brining up the first supporting point for your argument



aksendz
05.4.09 - 9:02 am

reply


aksendz,

you're alienating most of the people on this forum with your fallacious arguments. stay on topic if you want to argue. your argument has become Ad Hominem, attacking the person (or in this case, "most of you") instead of their argument.

weak.



spiraldemon
05.4.09 - 9:08 am

reply


i'm speechless.
wow.





aksendz
05.4.09 - 9:12 am

reply


Wait what was spiral saying about fellatio and hummin' on em?



Roadblock
05.4.09 - 10:54 am

reply


So how far have you gotten on getting this law on the books since last time this was brought up PC?

..................................


That's what I thought! Even though it would be an awesome law to have in our fair city, I doubt anyone is going to see it in their life times, but more power to you.

BTW, it doesn't take 150 hp to power a car down the road. A full size car is something like 25-30 hp to power it at 60mph. And aksendz did a pretty admirable job holding his own, if I do say so myself. He seemed to have the best arguments per insults ratio.

Before you go and poo poo me instead of my position, let me make it clear that I agree with the idea of changing the law. I just think it's never going to happen. We can't even get city officials and law enforcement to uphold the laws we have on the books, much less establish new laws!



User1
05.4.09 - 11:22 am

reply


+1 Roadblock
User1- PC did mention that he got naysay'ed to death- I'd be willing to bet that it was by you. Also, I think if anyone could make it happen, la duderina (GTFO! You're going to FAIL EVERYTHING! Don't end up like me) could.
Spiraldemon- You've inspired me to go find my little booklet of logical fallacies. I'd be willing to bet that everyone of them has come up in this thread.



danya
05.4.09 - 1:01 pm

reply


Yes that's right danya, cause I speak for everyone on this forum.



User1
05.4.09 - 1:11 pm

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Mea culpa, poor wording. *I'd be willing to bet that it was by you were an active voice in that discussion. *



danya
05.4.09 - 1:17 pm

reply


It's like talking to mud, sometimes. Like talking to a pile of adobe bricks. Like talking to Deputy Anger.



PC
05.4.09 - 1:37 pm

reply


Yes, I feel your pain PC.



User1
05.4.09 - 1:40 pm

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I have no illusions that getting this law passed will be easy, but that doesn't mean that the effort shouldn't be made.

Not to overestimate our situation here, but the analogy that comes to mind for me is the struggles that lead to the passage of civil rights legislation. The road is long . . .



mr rollers
05.4.09 - 2:00 pm

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oh man i love that aksenz kid!



mandingo
05.4.09 - 2:04 pm

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PC, D.Agner was a tool who was stubborn like crazy, even when presented with logical arguments from us.

If I'm wrong I'll admit that I am wrong, but you have to prove I'm wrong, not just insult me.

User1, I appreciate that, thank you.



aksendz
05.4.09 - 2:53 pm

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I just skimmed through this thread... but yeah:

That law makes a lot of sense to me. Of course, there might be certain intersections where it would be in everyone's best interest that a cyclist not run a red, even after coming to a stop. BUT, there's no reason why a city couldn't implement cyclist-specific road signs (similar to the No Right Turn on Red signs for cars, when in a normal circumstance it's alright to turn on a red.)

A big change like that would take a million years, sure... but you've gotta start somewhere. I can't fucking stand when people use time as an excuse for not making progress. That's backward, lazy and stupid.

Speaking of stupid... ugh... sometimes I feel like just reading this forum and realizing just how thick some skulls are, my mind gets dimmer by association.



canadienne
05.4.09 - 3:21 pm

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Well, now that you're advancing actual arguments instead of giving me this "rules are rules and can never be changed" crap, we have something to talk about.

-higher congestion
-wider, bigger streets
-much larger population


I don't want to insult your intelligence here, but let me point out that Idaho has cities as well. Like, with buildings and stuff. It is reasonable to assume that Idaho's legislature was aware of this when they passed the law.

-majority of intersections have obstructed corners

In cities, this is often the case. The Idaho law anticipates these situations:

(1) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and, if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection without stopping.
(2) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a steady red traffic control light shall stop before entering the intersection and shall yield to all other traffic. Once the person has yielded, he may proceed through the steady red light with caution. Provided however, that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a right-hand turn. A left-hand turn onto a one-way highway may be made on a red light after stopping and yielding to other traffic.


See? It's "slow and yield" for a stop sign and "stop, then proceed with caution" for a red light. Nobody's saying that you can just blast on through a blind intersection. You could still get a ticket for doing it.

-plus, how will one be able to argue that they yielded at a stop sign and performed a 'rolling stop'

What?



PC
05.4.09 - 3:23 pm

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FINALLY, 50 or so posts into the thread some support for your opinion.

Los Angeles, the city it self has 9.5 million people...thats 8 million more people that the whole state of Idaho.

Imagine Silver lake, home to 40k people compared to the largest city Boise, 7.5k

Obviously traffic is much lighter and rolling through would be easier.
I actually wouldn't mind a small section of LA having this to se if it works. If it does great, if it doesn't, told you so :]

PC, I was trying to say what is considered 'blowing through' a red and how can cops determine if a cyclist did indeed slow down to observe traffic.





aksendz
05.4.09 - 4:14 pm

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I personally believe there are bigger fish to fry.
People still think that we are not supposed to be on the road, how do you think they'll respond when we are running reds and ignoring stop signs



aksendz
05.4.09 - 4:17 pm

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...the same way they determine if a car slowed down at a yield sign? That's kind of the point.



danya
05.4.09 - 4:18 pm

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how can cops determine if a cyclist did indeed slow down to observe traffic.

well, if he didn't make through the intersection alive, my guess is that he didn't bother observing...

...and if you're concerned about the increased difficulty for police to give tickets to people for no valid reason, well, I guess that would be a sacrifice I'm willing to make.



canadienne
05.4.09 - 4:24 pm

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I havn't tried it yet, but if I get hassled for running a red light that won't detect me when it is clear and safe to do so, I intend to bring up CVC 21800 (d) (1) The driver of any vehicle approaching an intersection which has official traffic control signals that are inoperative shall stop at the intersection, and may proceed with caution when it is safe to do so. This subparagraph shall apply to traffic control signals that become inoperative because of battery failure.

As far as I am concerned, a traffic light that does not detect traffic, aka me, is defective and rendered inoperative.

Signal Detection



GarySe7en
05.4.09 - 4:31 pm

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Good call Gary!

p.s. Tyler's mom sent him a link to an article the other day about dealing with bicycle traffic tickets.
... it was your blog ;)



canadienne
05.4.09 - 4:38 pm

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So, Sendz, I guess the corner of Centre and Crescent in San Pedro at three in the morning isn't really deserted and wide open, because California has a high population count? And likewise, a busy intersection in Coeur D'Alene at rush hour isn't really busy because it's in Idaho? Something like that, right?



PC
05.4.09 - 5:36 pm

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Aww PC, this is too easy - you need more of a challenge.



mr rollers
05.4.09 - 5:46 pm

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Umm, I never said population of california...
maybe you should read before you type



aksendz
05.4.09 - 5:47 pm

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@G7
Yeah that's exactly what my argument would be if I ever got a ticket for running a red light. Really there isn't one that works for bikes. BTW I've ran red lights downtown with cops seeing me. My guess is that they had better things to do.

PC, good luck with even getting ANY proposition through to legislation, much less past. I'm betting it will snow in LA before that ever happens.

oops, there I go again, nay saying. :-(

Oh, and the only thing this remotely resembles to civil rights fights were that they're both a struggle. The resemblance ends right there. One was for equal rights to vote, the other is so a small group of our society can be less inconvenienced by some of our infrastructure. Good luck convincing the non-riding public on this one!



User1
05.4.09 - 5:52 pm

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San Pedro is not only part of the county of Los Angeles, it's part of the city if Los Angeles. In fact, the L.A. City Council meets there quarterly.
Maybe you should read before you type.



danya
05.4.09 - 5:56 pm

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That was my point: that some struggles are worth engaging in despite the fact that there are folks that say they can't be won.

Really, my illusions are small and my expectations low. I'm an old grouch, after all.



mr rollers
05.4.09 - 5:58 pm

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User1- I'm betting it will snow in LA before that ever happens.
Didn't UCLA get snow last winter? Or was it the winter before that?



danya
05.4.09 - 5:58 pm

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"Imagine Silver lake, home to 40k people compared to the largest city Boise, 7.5k " - aksendz

Boise has 200K inhabitants, and roughly 400K more in the metro area. Riding in Boise is riding in a real city, and their rules work.


I think most people that ride a lot in any city realize that strictly applying car traffic rules to bicycles is pointless and stupid. Bikes move differently and have different dangers, and therefore need different rules, just like motorcycles/cars/semitrucks have different rules.

The point of stop signs and lights is for smooth traffic flow and safety, and people on bikes can ride safely without interrupting traffic while treating stop signs as yields and red lights as stop signs.



zombiefiesta
05.4.09 - 6:03 pm

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Imagine Silver lake, home to 40k people compared to the largest city Boise, 7.5k aksendz

Were you trying to say Boise, Idaho has 7.5 thousand people? Actually it has over 200,000 people, with almost 600,000 in the metropolitan area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_idaho

What was your point again? That Boise is the size of Silverlake?





gregb
05.4.09 - 6:05 pm

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Can anyone find any part of Boise that resembles a city? By city I mean buildings over two stories high. Everywhere I'm looking it looks like suburbia.

Hmmmmm which day did UCLA have snow?

snow record



User1
05.4.09 - 6:14 pm

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So, Sendz, I guess the corner of Centre and Crescent in San Pedro at three in the morning isn't deserted and wide open, because California, Los Angeles, and the 90731 zip code have high population counts? Something like that, right?



PC
05.4.09 - 6:20 pm

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User1- http://cbs2.com/local/Los.Angeles.Cold.2.527066.html
This was the incident I was talking about. It was before I moved here, so all I remember is hearing reports of OMG! Snow in LA!!!! on the news in TX.



danya
05.4.09 - 6:24 pm

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Can we all just drop this Boise thing?

And seriously, the biggest problem that I've noticed with inhabitants of L.A. is their stubbornness when it comes to change. Seriously, what's with the naysaying???

To be fair, I only have one other place to compare L.A. to (since it's the only other place I've lived)... but there's so much energy and enthusiasm for progress in Toronto that there's a real momentum for change. And that city rules because of it!

Here, people have this attitude like the sheer size of the city is too much to overcome. Too many douchebags. Too many cars. Too many people don't give a shit about anything but themselves. And perhaps this is all true, but when you give up on pushing for what you believe in, and when you're too lazy to make an effort to improve something, you're no better than those douchebags that you use as an excuse.

These are just ideas being thrown around. If you don't want to take part in the fruition of something that has potential, just shut your nom-hole and let the people who believe in it get somewhere.



canadienne
05.4.09 - 6:28 pm

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well if the people can't argue it now how do you expect people who have no idea of what a bicycle is to listen.

and i'm all for it you guys trying but most people are all talk.
i would support you guys if you actually do this even though i'm skeptical but its just empty words.




aksendz
05.4.09 - 6:36 pm

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solution: get more people on bikes so they care



snowcone
05.4.09 - 6:42 pm

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danya, when I say snow in LA, I mean downtown LA. Not the Grapevine, Malibu, Lancaster, etc, etc, etc.

And yeah, more power to you guys. After all, I'm behind this idea, I just don't think it stands a snowball chance in hell of ever seeing day light. But heck, you wana fight for this? Go for it!



User1
05.4.09 - 7:11 pm

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come on guys, rules and laws are there for a reason.


in all seriousness, this sounds like a great idea. i just am having a hard time seeing it implemented here. i'll help any way i can though!



coldcut
05.4.09 - 11:05 pm

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You know aksensz stupidity initially really ticked me off, but what is really pissing me off are all you haters...

User1, aksendz, coldcut



I'm looking at you. Everyone knows this law would be a benefit to cyclists, but ohhhh since it'll "never" happen we shouldn't even try!!!



Did you know that Susan B. Anthony, the frontwoman in the movement for the right of women to vote, died FIFTEEN YEARS before the 20th amendment was passed? hmm??


You guys are really pissing me off. But keep doing it. Anger is excellent motivation.


Trust me, I have been thinking about this ever since I have moved to LA. I have thought it ridiculous that cyclists are forced to stop. It is dangerous to make us stop in certain situations.

I have all the arguments formulated in my head. I could present this tomorrrow, but alas I have a final.

I want to get the ball rolling on this, but not until July.

and aksendz --- ALL TALK?! WERE YOU AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON FRIDAY???!!

STEPHEN BOX

ENCI BOX

ALEX FUCKING THOMPSON??!!

Even Roadblock, Danya.....these people are not all talk. you are all talk and no substance. STFU






la duderina
05.5.09 - 12:36 pm

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I know little to nothing about getting laws passed or even on what level this thing should be pushed. But I think the first step is to start planting the idea in the heads of our fellow cyclists and developing our arguments. It's a ways off, to be sure, but it's not always about instant gratification.

There are a lot of issues at any given time, but this is one that hasn't been given much play yet. Gotta begin somewhere . . .



mr rollers
05.5.09 - 1:13 pm

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aksedz was at Storm the Bastille actually.



Gav
05.5.09 - 1:16 pm

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that was my point Gav, the fact that he was there shows that he should know that these ridazz are in fact, not all talk. The activism in this community is astounding and inspiring.



la duderina
05.5.09 - 1:30 pm

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I for it though, I don't like having to be forced to wait at a red light because it leaves me vulnerable to being struck from behind by someone not paying attention. If traffic is clear I'd rather be safe across the street and on my way.



Gav
05.5.09 - 1:31 pm

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and thank you Danya, for your support! <3

you'll be one of the people I will be coming to when I get the ball rolling on this, if someone else doesn't start before I can.

But if you all can be patient until July, I will gladly..gladly..start working on this.

I needed a project. and this is it.



la duderina
05.5.09 - 1:32 pm

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oh, I though you were asking if he even bothered to show up.



Gav
05.5.09 - 1:32 pm

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+100 Gav





la duderina
05.5.09 - 1:33 pm

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honestly, how many times do you see cars stop IN THE CROSSWALK?



Gav
05.5.09 - 1:41 pm

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not that any of this matters....but shit this thread is fun!!!

i ride my bike(when i have the energy to) like im trying to escape the apocalypse.. this means going through stop signs when the other 3 sides are empty... i often go through reds no matter where i am. Also i sidewalk skip(ride the sidewalk) when the streets are way to rough to conquer with my old ass road bike. FTR i dont think we can get a law passed like that in LA or even CALi for that matter... look how hard it is to bring some IDIOTS that ATTEMPTED murder to fuckin trial(hummer incident)... Stay safe at all times.. you may have heard me scream "PROTECT YA NECK" at some rides and this is what i live by. Use your brain and protect what is most precious to you...obviously the law will and CANNOT.



pretti*ugli
05.5.09 - 2:19 pm

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yeah, but who wants to be doing what's best for their safety on the bike and then ticketed.



Gav
05.5.09 - 2:39 pm

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la duderina
05.5.09 - 3:36 pm

i'm being SARCASTIC!


as i mentioned, i'd love to see this implemented but i'm very skeptical of it ever happening due to our dependence and love of cars out here. i'm down to help in any way.



coldcut
05.5.09 - 5:30 pm

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duderina, really calm down.
just because we have a difference of opinion don't mean you got to be all upitty. chill homegirl.

and I told you, if the ball does get rolling i'm down to help out. I am just not convinced it will work and no one has presented anything besides anecdotes.

Idaho Stop Law is the holy grail of commuting by bike (as how I think you feel about it)
It is point Z, yet we haven't even reach point B.
Look how terrible the bicycle infastructure is in Los Angeles, so bad that we have to actually go to city hall!

LA has a very small, if any, bicycle lobby and this won't be as easy as having the right arguments.

Look at Oregon, even with the Bicycle Transportation Alliance they failed to pass this. How in the world do you expect to do better?

Be rational and stop romanticizing the ideal. Be realistic and lets take it a step at a time. All of us can agree on the basic for Bicycle Infastrucute, the six Es Box was talking about. So lets work toward that.

When we have accomplished that, then we can disagree and form our own splinter groups and blah blah blah.

And yes, major props to the Boxes and AT.


Oh and Gav, Can you clarify what you said.
I got the impretion that you're afraid of being 'rear ended'
But if all of you are waiting for the red to turn green, would the driver be already stopped?






aksendz
05.5.09 - 6:36 pm

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First step for safer streets- actually penalize motorists who hit cyclists. Come represent.



danya
05.5.09 - 7:14 pm

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I am talking about trying to avoid being rear ended at red lights. Just because a light is red it does not mean the drivers are stopping. Too often do I see cars coming to a spot beyond the point they should have already stopped and I don't want to be in front of these drivers.

I think it's a lot safer to able to cross red lights and avoid waiting at an intersection if possible. Even if I get to an intersection along side the cars and we're all waiting for a green I'm not safe. drivers pull all sorts of shit when a light turns green and some of that could be avoided if I am past the red and on my way.

nothing is stopping me from running reds now except the possibility of getting a ticket, which is unfair if I'm not disturbing the opposing traffic and simply watching out for myself. I guess it's an attempt at being invisible.



Gav
05.5.09 - 7:15 pm

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i would love to but i haz school, getting edumacated!

oh ok gav. ya I just never had that situation. there is always cars and I just usually split the lane.



aksendz
05.5.09 - 8:12 pm

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la duderina better not slack off on this come july.....




mandingo
05.5.09 - 10:44 pm

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duderina you're all talk



now i hope your'e motivated to prove me wrong :]



aksendz
05.5.09 - 10:53 pm

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GAAHH!!!


I just typed up this WHOLE new thread about this thing and the plan I have cooked up and I hit POST and damn MR tells me to fuckin LOG IN


now I don't feel like re typing all of that, but stay tuned people.



la duderina
05.22.09 - 12:34 am

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IDAHO RIDAZZ TRIP ?



HANDBONE
05.22.09 - 12:38 am

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I do like potatoes.



la duderina
responding to a comment by HANDBONE
05.22.09 - 12:39 am

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no wonder b-rads from Idaho



HANDBONE
05.22.09 - 12:39 am

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Idaho? no, YOU da ho!



la duderina
responding to a comment by HANDBONE
05.22.09 - 12:39 am

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what's the going rate?



Gav
responding to a comment by la duderina
05.22.09 - 1:06 am

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aww :(
give us an outline :!!!!



aksendz
responding to a comment by la duderina
05.22.09 - 8:11 am

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PC = Potatoe Commissioner


Remember folks, whatever Russell says, just say NAY!

He gets all flustered. It's so cute!



Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by aksendz
05.22.09 - 9:50 am

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I'm going to start doing this. I'm pretty sure he has gone off his rocker.



la duderina
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
05.22.09 - 9:53 am

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Seriously sucks, man. I've done that so many times as well. By now I've gotten in the habit of always copying whatever I've typed before I hit 'Post' just in case I've been logged out.



danya
responding to a comment by la duderina
05.22.09 - 9:57 am

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