U Want A Subway-to-the-Sea?
Thread started by
skd at 01.31.08 - 10:06 am
Than you should attend one of the upcoming meetings. Maybe someone should organize a ride there....
They will discuss choosing proposed routes (West Hollywood or Wilshire or both) and funding.
Thursday, January 31: Los Angeles County Museum of Art-West, 6-8 p.m., LACMA-West Terrace Room, 5th Floor, 5905 Wilshire Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA,
Tuesday, February 5: Westwood Presbyterian Church, 6- 8 p.m., 10822 Wilshire Boulevard (at Malcolm Avenue), Los Angeles, CA.
Wednesday, February 6: Plummer Park, 6-8 p.m., 7377 Santa Monica Boulevard (at Plummer Place), West Hollywood, CA,
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oh my god, that would be heaven on earth
unfortunately ill be working on those days, but shit, make this happen!
ectoplasm01.31.08 - 10:07 am
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This matter has been discussed for years. BH will not allow a subway system to run through their precious city. period.
skano01.31.08 - 10:12 am
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^^ then rather than a bike ride, maybe we should organize some of this for Beverly Hills.
City Hobgoblin01.31.08 - 10:20 am
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Actually Beverly Hills approved two subway stops in their city. Apparently gridlock, lack of parking and falling retail sales has propelled the city leaders to bend.
Beverly Hills Ready for a Subway
Monday, November 27, 2006
AP
BEVERLY HILLS, November 27, 2006 -- This city of stars and celebrity shoppers wants to go underground.
A transit panel is expected to endorse a subway route along congested Wilshire Boulevard, where buses and cars carry hundreds of thousands of people daily through the city of 35,000.
Officials soon could recommend two station locations that would include the city in a 15-mile "subway to the sea" linking downtown Los Angeles and coastal Santa Monica.
The subway project was stalled more than two decades ago but Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa made resuming it one of his campaign promises last year.
Story continues below
Advertisement
Concerns about potential crime and terrorism had residents here long opposed to being part of a subway system. But they appear to have been trumped by worries about congestion.
"Gridlock is such a problem on the Westside that it must be relieved, and we must be part of the equation," Dan Walsh, chief executive of the Beverly Hills Chamber of Commerce, said Friday.
"We have to make it a piece of cake to get here," Walsh said.
"There is an incredible sea change of attitude from resistance to support for the subway," said Allan Alexander, a former mayor who co-chairs the city's mass transit panel.
"It will allow people to come to work in the city, shop in the city, visit the city without bringing more cars to the city," he told the Los Angeles Times.
The transit panel is expected to finalize its tentative endorsement of a subway route next month and present it to the City Council in January.
The Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority would pick the route but that may be a year or more away. In addition, no construction money has been allotted for the estimated $5-billion project.
However, efforts are under way to overturn a 1986 ban on the use of federal funds for tunneling through the area.
Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, pushed through the ban because he feared construction could cause an explosion of naturally occurring methane gas.
But new research has convinced him that tunneling can be done safely, and he has introduced legislation to lift the ban.
(Copyright ©2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
skd01.31.08 - 10:24 am
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thanks for refreshing my memory.
skano01.31.08 - 10:29 am
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^^ I wonder if after big wars, notes like that get sent around.
City Hobgoblin01.31.08 - 10:43 am
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Apparently carpet bombing wasn't necessary. The weight of traffic congestion, parking problems, lack of foot traffic to their retail stores and restaurants, and difficulty finding immigrant slave labor to clean their offices and restrooms, was destroying the city from within.
Too bad the idiots who run Beverly Hills have no foresight. They could've had a subway running down Wilshire today, had they gotten aboard back in the early nineties. For that someone should at least be beaten and tortured.
skd01.31.08 - 10:46 am
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what the hell? mike actually makes sense in a thread for once? ;-)
trekkie01.31.08 - 10:52 am
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skd:
"Too bad the idiots who run Beverly Hills have no foresight. They could've had a subway running down Wilshire today, had they gotten aboard back in the early nineties. For that someone should at least be beaten and tortured."
So maybe we're talking more like a laser guided bomb?
City Hobgoblin01.31.08 - 11:09 am
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Or something a little more low-tech and cheaper.
skd01.31.08 - 11:32 am
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Damn those NIMBY-ass biatches. They're also responsible for Santa Monica Blvd. being suddenly useless for a few miles.
cabhauler01.31.08 - 11:38 am
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What's that thing called, where the city just takes shit over? Enema Domain?
:: flusssshhhh ::
NEWB31001.31.08 - 11:55 am
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Is it me or Beverly Hills looks like a urine stain on this map?
marino01.31.08 - 12:20 pm
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I'm pretty sure it wasn't just Beverly Hills that gave unified opposition to subways through their neighborhoods in the 60s and 70s. Quite a few neighborhoods on the west side made it clear that they didn't want THOSE people (you know, the ones who will steal your bike if you go to the Watts Towers) to have easy access to their neighborhoods.
Just throwing that out there, for those of you planning aerial bombardment campaigns.
PC01.31.08 - 12:31 pm
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It's not Beverly Hills, it's Santa Monica and it's legions of homeowners that bought houses there 30 years ago and think it's their right and duty to prevent anyone from ever moving to, working in, or visiting "their" city, lest it "cause congestion". I've only listened to a couple city council meetings, but apparently the causes of congestion include, but are not limited to, buses, bus lanes, bicycle lanes, freeways, trains, subways, brown people, urban planning, art studios, traffic signals, "development", property taxes, and hedge-height exemptions. The solution is a 30 foot wall down 26th Street, behind which only single-occupant Lexus Hybrid SUVs are allowed.
stevestevesteve01.31.08 - 12:43 pm
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Santa Monica is bad too as well, for all their green progressive pretensions. Apparently being a homeowner turns you into a selfish tool. Those biatches should just feel lucky that they own something.
cabhauler01.31.08 - 12:56 pm
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that's why the 90 is the world's shortest freeway and curiously comes from nowhere and steers you away from the "good people" area.
Roadblock01.31.08 - 1:01 pm
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holy shit ! RB you're right, it does..or maybe it also decongest the 10.
skano01.31.08 - 1:19 pm
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Interesting, Culver City is in the Bad People area.
Cue the "Straight Outta Compton" beat:
City of Culver ...
City of Culver ...
cabhauler01.31.08 - 1:49 pm
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WRECKREATIONAL VEHICLES UNITE
WE GO ALL CITY
WE CIRCLE THE WAGONS
THIS IS A FUNGER STRIKE
SKIDMARCUS01.31.08 - 1:58 pm
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The westside ridazz should plan a ride to the Tuesday meeting.
Tuesday, February 5: Westwood Presbyterian Church, 6- 8 p.m., 10822 Wilshire Boulevard (at Malcolm Avenue), Los Angeles, CA.
And the LA, East side ridazz should plan a ride to the West Hollywood meeting.
Wednesday, February 6: Plummer Park, 6-8 p.m., 7377 Santa Monica Boulevard (at Plummer Place), West Hollywood, CA,
skd02.1.08 - 9:34 am
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"And the LA, East side ridazz should plan a ride to the West Hollywood meeting.
Wednesday, February 6: Plummer Park, 6-8 p.m., 7377 Santa Monica Boulevard (at Plummer Place), West Hollywood, CA,"
That, my friend is brilliant. The meeting is on the early side, though.....but I'm willing to try to get out of work early to ride there. Anyone want to ride from downtown?
Ms. Stephanie02.1.08 - 9:57 am
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It is on the early side, and I am sure that most riders won't be able to meet until 6:30pm or later. Though arriving at the meeting at 7pm would still work and the show of force by bicyclists would have a lasting impact.
Last nights meeting at LACMA was supposedly packed,
details from LAist standing room only, so the momentum of this project is becoming an irresistible force.
skd02.1.08 - 10:08 am
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Another idea as well....maybe sometime later this month.
A ride starting from Highland and Hollywood Metro station that would trace the route of the subway-to-the-sea along Santa Monica Blvd.
A corresponding ride from the Western and Wilshire Metro station that would follow the Wilshire corridor.
Both rides would converge on Wilshire, right after Beverly Hills and together they would ride all the way to the beach in Santa Monica.
skd02.1.08 - 10:23 am
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That's a good one, too.....maybe for LA Critical Mass?
Ms. Stephanie02.1.08 - 10:26 am
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I don't understand the Century City to NoHo line.
From Century City you would only need to go to Hollywood and Highland and then switch to the existing NoHo line.
No switching trains would be awesome but shouldn't the priority be to expand the system?
Another thing I
d like to see but never hear about is a Pasadena to Valley line. Something along the 134 FWY
marino02.1.08 - 10:43 am
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Yeah, logically and the most cost-effective plan would be to extend the Highland and Hollywood line down through West Hollywood and onward towards the ocean. Instead of building new tracks and possible a new tunnel from Noho through the mountains. You might have to change trains, but my experience with the Red line and the Purple line on Western and Vermont, is that the train arrivals can be synchronized within minutes of each other.
skd02.1.08 - 10:52 am
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yess!! i'm there!
et02.1.08 - 11:40 am
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For any eastsiders interested in heading to the meeting in WeHo wednesday, I plan on leaving from in front of the Library downtown - at 5th + Flower - around 6:15 / 6:30.
I don't have a route planned as yet, but thought some combo bike riding / subway riding / drinking might be fun after. Also, if there's anyone who wants to meet up along the way and ride, that would be good too (Eric Hair?). Let me know where, and I and whoever else rides from downtown can swing by.
Ms. Stephanie02.4.08 - 10:18 am
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What route will you take? Maybe riders could connect with this ride from various locations, Echo Park, Silver Lake, Hollywood, etc.
The more people that show up the better.
skd02.4.08 - 1:49 pm
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I won't be able to get off until 6:00pm. So I will meet you folks at the meeting or I may join the ride in progress.
skd02.6.08 - 9:21 am
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I don't understand the Century City to NoHo line.
From Century City you would only need to go to Hollywood and Highland and then switch to the existing NoHo line.
Haven't you noticed yet that the red line doesn't really go anywhere useful in general? Granted, there are a few legit spots that commuters can use, but there seem to be a hell of a lot of stops on that line that are just designed for tourist traps.
It reminds me of a few weeks back when roadblock and a few others of us were coming back from the track in carson on the blue line. In the propaganda about the blue line, every stop on the line had a "point of interest" outlined. It seemed like something more for out-of-towners than anything else. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't understand why the metro has to be turned into a system that dumps people off where they can blow money. It should be a system built cut and dry to move people to where they need to go, that's it.
Interestingly enough, we noted that there were NO "sites of interest" in a certain section of the blue line between long beach and downtown. I'm sure you can guess where that was.
kyber02.6.08 - 10:30 am
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"It should be a system built cut and dry to move people to where they need to go, that's it."
AMEN.
make the fuckin thing useful. but people take it upon themselvs to think that "world class subway" means architectural "innovations" and yadayada no one will use it unless it dazzles the eye. they def designed it with tourists in mind. the fuckin thing stops running at 1 am. I've said it before, I bet they could have saved a shit load in maintainance, design, and manufacturing costs if they would have standardized the materials used for the railway stops instead of making them elaborate arts fartsy fancy schmancy art pieces. prolly could have built at least a mile more of railway with all the money used to make them look like they do.
Roadblock02.6.08 - 10:34 am
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I have a hard time believing the Blue Line is there to cater to tourist or not there to primarily to move people around. The freakin line is outside my window! I see it everyday and use it quite regularly. You know what? I see VERY few tourist on this line. That's assuming that your typical tourist isn't black or brown. Many times I'm the only white boy on the freakin train! The train moves people too poor to own a car for the most part. It does move white people during the rush hours though.
I know exactly the ad you are referring to that you saw on the train. It quotes that places to see are Pine Ave and The Pike. Yeah it's sad that the only thing these places have is shops to buy more crap. Minus a handful of restaurants that feed you in between your shopping for crap. But most of these people have parking structures to park their crap haulers! The ads are marketing to the people that ride the train a place to get away for a stroll and possibly a movie. Maybe if they have money, a place to go eat.
If you happen to be at the Pike. Take a look around. You'll see that there's vacancies there even though The Pike has been open for well over five years. In the 16 years I've been living here, I've seen this short sightedness from our leaders in regards to managing these tourist areas. All they try to market is a place to buy crap. OK they do have the aquarium, but they could have done a whole lot better attempting something more than a place to buy crap.
Here's another example of what I'm talking about. We're called Long Beach, but take a look at the beaches. You'll notice there's no waves! No waves, LA River dumping into the bay equals one dead body of water! Who wants to swim on a beach that got an F from Heal the Bay?
Looks like LB has waves huh? --------->
(Taken from Wiki)
User102.6.08 - 2:06 pm
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That picture looks like Belmont Shore, the white enclave with the expensive beach homes and the quaint village-like town center. The real LBC where the oil Islands glow off shore at night while the roughtrade plies its wares on Broadway and Cherry and north of Anaheim street they be slanging something for "fitty" a hit.
skd02.6.08 - 2:45 pm
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This pic is of the Dog Beach, here's what wiki said,
The Long Beach Dog Beach Zone is the only legal off-leash area on the beach for dogs in all of Los Angeles County. This 3-acre area is situated in Belmont Shore between Roycroft and Argonne avenues.
User102.6.08 - 3:08 pm
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I lived in Long Beach for four years, on East Ocean Blvd, about two miles from Belmont shore. I never knew there was a "dog beach". But I wasn't really paying attention....too busy partying while going to college.
skd02.6.08 - 3:26 pm
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The "architectural innovations" are, almost literally, icing on the cake of a subway or light rail system. Relatively speaking, they add very little cost to the project and are certainly preferable to the usual dreary look of transportation infrastructure.
PC02.6.08 - 4:38 pm
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You talk pretty fancy for a longshoreman.
Joe Borfo02.6.08 - 4:41 pm
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Kyber wrote:
Haven't you noticed yet that the red line doesn't really go anywhere useful in general?
No. On the contrary, it goes to quite a few useful places, which probably explains why so many people use it. The only stops I would consider possible "tourist traps" are Hollywood/Highland and Universal City, and even those are useful to the people who work at those tourist traps. Other stops (MacArthur Park, just to name one) are home to bazillions of people who depend on transit.
PC02.6.08 - 4:47 pm
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"Relatively speaking, they add very little cost to the project and are certainly preferable to the usual dreary look of transportation infrastructure."
how much did it all cost? to maintain? to design? for materials? that big ass wing a ma-thing at sanmo and vermont? the big ass wire hand with paper plane at el seg and nash? for the commitee to take time to choose the artists? finally, ask a new yorker if they would or would not use their argu-ably dreary system more or less if it looked fancy or not.
Roadblock02.6.08 - 4:49 pm
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"No. On the contrary, it goes to quite a few useful places, which probably explains why so many people use it. The only stops I would consider possible "tourist traps" are Hollywood/Highland and Universal City, and even those are useful to the people who work at those tourist traps. Other stops (MacArthur Park, just to name one) are home to bazillions of people who depend on transit. "
I would agree, for me the redline actually goes everywhere I need to. my house, my girls pad and my job (blueline to greenline) so I'm pretty happy about it.
Roadblock02.6.08 - 4:51 pm
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Admittedly this is off the top of my head, but I estimate that if you eliminated the cost of all the whatchamacallits and hoohoodillies from the construction and maintenance budget of a subway and light rail system, you'd have enough left over to dig about another thirty feet of subway.
PC02.6.08 - 4:54 pm
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New York's subway isn't dreary by design, by the way, it's just old. All that tile work can't have been cheap.
PC02.6.08 - 4:57 pm
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you say 30 feet I say a mile.... either way it's more useful to have more subway than for it to look artsy fartsy (and outdated in 10 years) not to mention the cost of remodeling and upkeep.
Roadblock02.6.08 - 4:57 pm
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the tile work may or may not have been expensive but it is standard across most of the stations. standardized deisign elements make building and upkeep cheaper is my main point. they obviously werent trying to make each station look like an art piece they just built the shit and turns out it's timeless too.
Roadblock02.6.08 - 4:59 pm
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...it's looking less and less like I'm going to make the meeting. Sorry kids.
Ms. Stephanie02.6.08 - 5:00 pm
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What we need is the Metrolink to send a few trains to the desert every once in awhile.
A twenty-dollar, train ticket is better than trying to rent a car on the weekend!!
bentstrider02.6.08 - 5:06 pm
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Standardized station design would be fine with me, too. I'm just saying that station design is such a tiny part of the cost of a transit system that it's not worth worrying about very much.
PC02.6.08 - 5:19 pm
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*shrug*
I'm used to the NY subway system, which goes EVERYWHERE.
*neener neener*
kyber02.6.08 - 6:11 pm
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...and runs all night, unlike our system which turns into a fucking pumpkin at midnight.
PC02.7.08 - 4:03 am
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The Moscow Metro system, the largest and busiest subway system in the world, was ordered built by the Communists during the Soviet reign from 1935 to 1956. They wanted to move the masses from one point to another quickly and efficiently, and to every nook and cranny of the city 24/7.
Unfortunately( or fortunately however you look at it) for the Communists, the Russian architects and artists were educated in some of the best schools in the world. They designed a very "UnCommunist" subway system. With Crystal Chandeliers, mosaic tile inlays, and grand archways, all representing classical architecture and art.
The cost to the Soviet government was astronomical at the time. Today the Moscow Metro art and architecture is priceless. The value far exceeding the original cost to build it.
During rush hour a subway train arrives in the Moscow Metro every 30 seconds.
skd02.7.08 - 9:15 am
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you want a subway to rival all subways, try korea.
now who's got your *neener*
Eric Hair02.7.08 - 9:44 am
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"Unfortunately( or fortunately however you look at it) for the Communists, the Russian architects and artists were educated in some of the best schools in the world. They designed a very "UnCommunist" subway system. With Crystal Chandeliers, mosaic tile inlays, and grand archways, all representing classical architecture and art."
despite what we've all been told by the capitalist media for the last 70 or so years, communists were actually very successful regarding national infrastructure and their goal of providing for all was no joke. they had gads of money to spend on public works projects because they saw that it benefitted their national interest and not just the interest of an oligarchy. that includes some of the worlds most amazing architecure and public art, space programs and transportation systems...
I'm not against elaborate architecture and public art. it's just that here in los angeles we dont have the luxury of a strong government that provides for it's people. our subway has scant dollars dedicated to it due in part to the influence of privatized business coalitions that wish for other things.... in which case having a bunch of money dedicated to fluff (a) instead of spending wisely to get a rudimentary system in place and working is silly.
Roadblock02.7.08 - 11:46 am
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Eric, so how is the metro in Korea superior to the world's systems?
I ended up doing a little research on wiki. Reading up on the system in Moscow makes me very envious! As far as serving the people, Tokyo and Paris systems get my vote. Both of them have a intermediate system that serves the outer regions of the city that is not included in the total passenger rides per year listed
here
User102.7.08 - 2:10 pm
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Roadblock wrote:
in which case having a bunch of money dedicated to fluff (a) instead of spending wisely to get a rudimentary system in place and working is silly.
To put it mildly, that's not an either/or situation.
PC02.7.08 - 2:17 pm
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Oh yeah, you might want to see this thread to see what I'm referring to,
http://www.midnightridazz.com/forums.php?topicId=2135&pgnum=1
User102.7.08 - 2:40 pm
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The Moscow metro is amazing, and 30 seconds at rush hour is something of a low estimate. All stations have a clock at the front exit of the platform that resets when the train leaves, and at rush hour, you usually see something like 18-20 seconds o the clock before the next train is pulling into the station. At 1am, just before it closes, you might have to wait a couple of minutes for a train.
The downside is that it is in the most populated city in Europe, and as a result, even 18 second train intervals leaves things JAM PACKED during rush hour. It isn't uncommon to spend 15-20 minutes trying to exit a station after getting off the train, just standing in a large horde of people, inching forward an inch at a time like penguins.
The stations are also hellaciously deep, as it was designed to serve as a nuclear shelter. There are plenty of stations where te escalator ride exceeds 5 minutes, and should you dare to walk up the thing, you will be feeling it by the time you reach the top, no matter what kind of shape you are in.
Riding the metro every morning is the best part of my day whenever I'm working there. Its just crazy and fun and fascinating all at once.
--sam
ideasculptor02.7.08 - 2:50 pm
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Damn! I want to go to Moscow now. I would be down there for days. Thanks for sharing that!
User102.7.08 - 3:16 pm
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The part I left out is that the Moscow subways are chock full of incredibly beautiful slavic women, which, if you are single, makes it all the more fun. If you aren't, and you are in Moscow, you soon will be.
ideasculptor02.7.08 - 4:41 pm
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Just so everyone knows, I'm not trying to hate on metro.
I just think they have to wake up and face the fact that an expansive subway system is something that is in dire, dire need here.
If they don't act now, I can only imagine how horrible traffic will be here 10 years from now.
kyber02.7.08 - 4:53 pm
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I just quickly dug through some of my Moscow photos and found some metro shots. I uploaded them
here
ideasculptor02.7.08 - 5:05 pm
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I noticed someone mentioned Korea. I haven't been, but I have a lot of friends who have, and heard how amazing the metro is there. Check out this map, and then look at ours, it will make you sad. Seoul encompasses a large surface area as well.
GarySe7en02.7.08 - 6:04 pm
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LA's map is depressing enough when rendered as colored lines on a white background. But superimpose if over a satellite imagery of Los Angeles and it verges on criminal. It is absolutely pathetic just how little of this vast metropolitan area is serviced by it.
This one is the best I could find with a quickie search, but it doesn't really do it justice. When you see true satellite imagery that shows a dense population that extends down to Orange County, up through the valley, and east to the inland empire, our metro is just a little squiggle in the middle. It makes me sad.
ideasculptor02.7.08 - 6:25 pm
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criminal is right!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Streetcar_Scandal
Roadblock02.7.08 - 6:31 pm
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Time to start up some big, useful, advertising campaigns to boost ridership, and encourage the building of more lines.
Something along the lines of "Only cool people ride trains" would kick ass!!
Commercial 1:
-A subway/metroline car full of party-people in a happy, hopping atmosphere.
While a sad person in an overpowered, slow-moving, monstrosity stares in dismay at the train-car with all the happy people.
Commercial 2:
-Massive, 30-50 car pileup on some major freeway.
Jaws of Life being used to extract somebody from a crushed vehicle.
Patrons of subway look on in horror, and one of them says,
"Damn glad I wasn't on the freeway".
Cutscene to a title card reading:
"MetroRail...You'll be glad you did."
Voiceover by some scary dude.
bentstrider02.7.08 - 6:47 pm
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Another reason to quickly expand the subway system towards the westside.
New 45 story Century City condo project
How can they build such a high density project when Santa Monica Blvd is already gridlocked during the day?!!
This project should not be built, and it will be complete in three years from ground-break to grand-opening, unless plans to build a subway under Santa Monica Blvd is approved, which will take ten years to complete.
skd02.8.08 - 9:24 am
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-->
Ridazz Roulette!
KABLOOIE on Beverly Hills.
Now can we have a subway?
Here's a pic