Bicycle advocacy in LA?
Thread started by
Roadblock at 04.16.09 - 4:25 pm
well.... it's 2009... we've gone to meetings with the LADOT. We've called to action as per the request of the LACBC....
where are we at?
lets discuss:
1) status of cyclists bill of rights - was it ever put before the city council?
2) bicycle registration - are we or are we not still getting tickets randomly?
3) bicycle infrastructure - anything new in LA proper?
4) LADOT was supposed to study sharrows for 180 days... you know, to find out just how dangerous the paint is to cyclists...
5) Expo line: meeting just happened what next
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you really like to fight with these local gov't officials don't you?
sexy04.16.09 - 4:26 pm
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I wish I could fight with them. physically. I would be knockin suckazz out left and right.
Roadblock04.16.09 - 4:31 pm
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FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
Debut21304.16.09 - 4:33 pm
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hey tough guy lets even out the ring. You think you can take all three of these at once
![](http://www.house.gov/roybal-allard/images/LRAMTA_PhotoJan29.jpg")
sexy04.16.09 - 4:36 pm
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how about these two tough guys? Antonio just made a joke about using blackberrys in official meetings
sexy04.16.09 - 4:38 pm
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all I know is that at the level bike advocacy is going maybe we'll get a new bike lane in fontana someday
Roadblock04.16.09 - 4:38 pm
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these four are giving you the thumbs up for kicking the others one ass.
sexy04.16.09 - 4:39 pm
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Our Hero training for the fights
sexy04.16.09 - 4:44 pm
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hahah
I guess this thread can go in the trash now. thanks dave
Roadblock04.16.09 - 4:48 pm
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you have to look at your victories, not your prizes. more and more people are getting into bike advocacy, and as they grow in numbers, those jaded with the fight will come back to the fight.
plus there are so many more people on bikes than i have ever seen. even if theyre not going to the meetings, that counts for something.
keep posting those meetings. keep fighting. we might not get those sharrows soon, but we'll get them. we just have to let the city council know that we're not going away.
...or we can just go around painting them ourselves. the city's broke, isnt it?
tortuga_veloce04.16.09 - 5:42 pm
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nobody cares about being proactive anyways.
All of these folks love to be reactive.
sexy04.16.09 - 6:27 pm
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i know its not much but bike the talk/or whatever we cant decide to call it is sunday. and it's simple. i have no hope for bicyclist really. nobody showed up for the last one. i thought i would make this one really simple. We came up with a lot of strategies but if no one wants to help carry them out whats the point. it cant just be me and joseph, really. Fun times only last so long.
veronica04.18.09 - 8:33 am
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One dud event and you're ready to give up? Given that I haven't heard anything about your event, it can't have been that well publicized. Quit whining and MAKE IT HAPPEN! You've got a solid idea, so run with it.
-Make your own thread about it. Like, with your critical information at the top for everyone to see.
-Get excited! Hype it up! Make it sound like the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's what gets people's attention, not whiny negativity.
-Go other places. MR.com is not the be all, end all of cycling in Los Angeles. For such a generic pro-cycling event, you should reach out to the broader cycling population.
@Roadblock- can this thread be resuscitated? I'd like to hear the answers to the questions you posed.
danya04.18.09 - 8:48 am
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Well, what do L.A. cyclists want?
It might help to work on how to stop sending mixed messages. (e.g. "Police should enforce laws against bike theft and drunk and abusive motorists, but not against cyclists running red lights, cycling drunk and abusing motorists.")
It might also help to get a consensus on what kind of infrastructure we'd like to see. Sharrows are great when used with other traffic calming/slowing devices, but on major through streets, they'd be pretty easy to ignore, while bike lanes are a clearly defined place on the road for bikes (which has its own set of pluses and minuses.) Should we go for both? Should we advocate for more separate bike paths to bring more people and families into cycling? What are the goals?
Raising awareness and seeking publicity in the absence of specific goals and direction is just attention whoring, and can have negative repercussions.
A few people sitting down and coming up with a well thought out plan, and then working with the greater community of cyclists and city leaders to get buy in would probably be the best way to go about it, it's just a matter of finding people who feel strongly enough about a particular goal to spend the time and effort doing the research and making the calls to make it happen.
JB04.18.09 - 11:26 am
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For one, I think the efforts to start a new bike co-op in the valley is a sign of progress.
For two, what about the ciclovia discussions? Is that not a promising thought?
For three, what's it gonna take to get some damn sharrows on the road already? Is there a list of proposed streets to put them on. Have cyclists convened to establish a consensus on this matter?
What else needs to be done to make things happen? Meetings can only accomplish so much...talk is cheap...let's get the wheels turning, I'm with ya!
kryxtanicole04.18.09 - 3:00 pm
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Honestly I think we need to
form a union of bicyle commuters. And I don't think it should focus on the county. I think this one should focus on LA city densely populated areas and on getting what is tantamount to a network of bicycle freeways put in much like they have in the netherlands.
We NEED to hire lawyers, hopefully ones who step up and work pro bono or at reduced rates. We need to start suing the city. We need to start suing the MTA and the LADOT and whoever else and start forcing them into action. its expensive. But there has to be funding available from the bicycle industry.
I would like to see legal action on behalf of:
Traffic calming and paint on the streets - in what ever form, sharrows or bike lanes a combination of the two or even a new kind of traffic icon -on designated north south streets and east west streets in central LA. It would look like a tic tac toe grid.
Bicyle paths, lanes and sharrows
Transforming streets like fountain and 4sbb into special bicycle zoned streets that carry stiffer fines for vehicle violations.
Including a bike path with the expo line
Forcing universal city to allow the la river bike path to continue through its boundaries. Developing the ballona creek bike path so that it connects with the LA river bike path. Connect the LA river bike path from the valley to Long Beach.
That's first phase.
We need a network of real "freeways" for bikes to get people across this big ass city. I'm just sayin' the same way the auto industry built it's empire I think so must we.
Roadblock04.18.09 - 4:38 pm
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roadblock, i never say your the bomb. but you are. That's exactly where we are at. We have to sue and get this organized in some fashion. I was talking to joseph after that danya girl wrote that stuff and i"ve hosted and done so many rides and events that it isnt about what she said for me anymore. The more you live the bike life that more you see dead and injured. The dot must get sued for putting bicyclist in danger because some lanes, the dot standard of 12' for cars do not accomodate byciclist and cars and there causes the trouble. Cars wont share and we have to make it so that we all fit in safely. Danya you could bicycle on sidewalks but you will get tired. Some cities are awesome to bike in. Like Highland park is a safe haven. The cops dont care and are scared of gangsters. Straight into pasadena and east, it's all great. Its fountain and deep hollywood thats crazy dangerous. That's why we want to have a space where we could come together tlak and then go to the officials in private meetings and get things done. We need back up from the bicycling community. It only takes two hours or less and you get a great dinner. Tommorrow bike the Talk. At the oven 7pm and then to funderstorm for the craziest marriage ever.
veronica04.18.09 - 6:49 pm
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Ahhhh Danya is awesome peeps. She's a make it happen kinda woman. You guys would work well together.
But yeah I'm beyond trying to kiss some ass and show up at countless public meetings for and agenda set by someone else. Time to SUE! Yes. Its time to get aggressive. Would be nice to set the agenda for once. What kind of costs are we talking about? What does it cost to file a lawsuit????
Roadblock04.18.09 - 7:01 pm
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JB?
i like the way this is going. there are plenty of personal injury law firms that specialize in bicycle injury. they'd also have a long list of possible plaintiffs for such a law suit.
even if we dont win, we have a much better chance of getting attention from the public and politicians than any demonstration, protest or petition ever could.
http://www.bicycleaccidentlawyers.com/
http://losangeles.esteybomberger.com/bicycle-accidents/bicycle-accident-injuries.php
http://www.ehlinelaw.com/pages/3256/types-of-bicycle-injuries.htm
http://www.injuryattorney-losangeles.com/bicycle_accidents-center.htm
http://www.los-angeles-injury-lawyer-blog.com/2009/03/bicycle_accidents_cause_head_i.html
tortuga_veloce04.18.09 - 7:12 pm
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I was thinking of lawyers who could sue for pro bicycle infrastructure policy changes in government.
But personal injury lawyers should also be doing their "thang" too. If insurance companies are feeling the bite they might also join the fight for safer streets for pedestrians and cyclists.
Roadblock04.18.09 - 7:40 pm
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i know a good amount of these lawyers are weekend warriors or and maybe even midnight ridazz. i'm sure they'd be receptive to doing some good work to help the community for either a lower rate or pro-bono. between local bike shops, bike industry and our own wallets and those of weekend warriors around town, i'm certain we can raise a cyclist legal defense fund.
btw, while were talking about community fundraising, dont forget to support Team Midnight Ridazz doing ALC this year!
tortuga_veloce04.18.09 - 7:47 pm
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yeah buy stuff at the bikeoven alc photo show comming up May 9 with spoken art.
veronica04.18.09 - 7:51 pm
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my idea for the lawsuit would be that the DOT has been negligent in creating a road infrastructure that allows cyclists to travel safely around town. the roads and highway code and the cvc specifically state that bicycles are a valid form of transportation, and yet the design of infrastructure fraught with substandard width lanes and insufficient signage creates a dangerous situation for cyclists, causing accidents and death.
and this has been ignored by the DOT in their planning, contributing to more accidents, injuries,cripplings and deaths.
tortuga_veloce04.18.09 - 7:52 pm
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THat is good. We really needed someone to connect with Lawyers. I could do more foot work because there is so much more, like not implimening the bike plan. There are 10', 12' and 14' car lanes. The 10' really forces the share of the road and is easier to distinguish. The 12' is not so easy to dtinguish and leaves the bicyclist 2'. That is the DOT standard. The 14' is plush and is what exist in nice places to ride, places with road diets, clearly you have 4'. Old trolley streets.
veronica04.18.09 - 8:22 pm
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Paint is all well and good, but I wouldn't need paint if I wasn't having to swerve all over the damn road trying to find pavement that won't eat my bike.
Personally, I think we'd all be better off if we just worked to get reasonably smooth pavement in the cycling areas of roads that are useful as part of cross-town routes. There are long, multi-mile stretches of my commute where I have no choice but to ride less than 2 feet from the lane marker despite the fact that there is a vast expanse of available pavement to the right, all of it riddled with holes and wide cracks parallel to my direction of travel. As a result, I'm forced to take a lane that I could otherwise easily share. I can't think of a single cross town road between Hollywood and Venice for which this isn't true
ideasculptor04.18.09 - 8:35 pm
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that's very interesting. do you have literature on that info?
tortuga_veloce04.18.09 - 8:35 pm
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Suing is usually a last resort. You have to have specific damages and a specific and achievable remedy, and if we had the focus to recommend a specific and achievable remedy, we could just work through the various groups in the City to make it happen.
The best thing to do would be for a group of 4-5 people on here to figure out a basic goal to start with, learn the necessary organizing, political, planning, skills, etc. GET THAT GOAL ACCOMPLISHED, then move on to the next one.
Trying to start with the goal of everything for every cyclist would be fun and exciting and get a lot of input, but ultimately it would be very frustrating.
Start with something reasonable and understandable.
Maybe a goal of two full decent cross-town bike lane / sharrow paths.
1. Extend the Venice Blvd. Bike Path East from where it ends at Crenshaw all the way out to Figueroa and from there to another route out to East L.A.
2. Extend the Santa Monica Blvd. Bike Path from it's little bit of Century City to go West to the Ocean (maybe along Idaho or Colorado) and East all the way up to Los Feliz, and from there to another route up into Glendale.
3. Or maybe make sure that bike lanes are part of the project to make Olympic and Pico one way streets.
Then add some decent North/South passages, maybe the whole length of Sepulveda, Western, Figueroa, then gradually build a decent bike network for all of L.A.
But start with something simple and straightforward that everybody can understand and get interested in, and get that knocked out before you move on to the next thing.
JB04.18.09 - 8:58 pm
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Good point sam, if they re-pave then they repaint the traffic lines and that's the perfect opportunity to add bicycle lanes and sharrows.
Roadblock04.18.09 - 9:02 pm
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I've been toying with the thought of starting a bicycle coalition at my school. Well not toying, I am going to do it next semester.
Give me a project. Like JB said. Assign me a task and maybe I and my fellow law student/riders could use the weight of my school to accomplish a few things.
But not now, later. lol I can't do a damn thing until July.
la duderina04.18.09 - 9:48 pm
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and by weight of my school I don't think SW itself would help out any, I just mean there's other riders there and bunches of lawyers who could help us out with stuff.
la duderina04.18.09 - 9:50 pm
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i'm favorable to low-cost bike infrastructure on all our streets: "may use full lane" signs, and dedicated bike lanes. im aware of a few studies that have shown dedicated bike lanes (which also have that horrible raised paint) offer a false sense of security much like crosswalks to pedestrians, and send a signal to cars that bikes dont belong in the street. i take the venice bike lane frequently, and it's full of cracks, potholes and swells from busses and cars. also, people set out their trash cans in the bike lane once a week, causing a significant hazard, and nothing is ever done about it.
we also need a cohesive and well-known way to document the issues in our community. what crime statistics are the police failing to report? what precincts are issuing the most citations-in-error? what are the dangerous streets to ride on? which police officers are endangering cyclists on group rides? and how would we promote it that so everyone has easy access to it?
tortuga_veloce04.18.09 - 10:08 pm
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I hereby refuse to get embroiled in any kind of arguments for or against paint on the streets and dedicated bikeways. I've seen the netherlands. There are bike lanes everywhere, there are bikeways everywhere. It works people can learn. It can work. Bike riders can learn to stay on the left side of the bike lanes. Its better than what we have now.
Roadblock04.18.09 - 11:14 pm
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i'm not saying i know if it's better to put paint on the streets or not. i do know that it's a pain in the ass to swerve for potholes and 10 layers of caked-on paint. maybe the city can remove the old paint before retouching the lane markings, rather than let it grow 6 inches thick.
that said, i think it's better to have paint on the streets than a chevy up my ass.
these are all up for discussion. i'm sure people in hollywood are having different problems. so what's our purpose in calling such a meeting? do we want to come up with a common set of concerns and solutions? do we want to come up with different sets of concerns and solutions based on locality?
before we can come up with solutions, we have to have an honest and candid conversation about the problems. nothing's sacred and nothing's taboo. sharrow paint would be slippery and ive had little slips before. but for all the times ive been threatened by cars, i've never fallen because of paint. we should still discuss ways to minimize the risk of valid concerns.
tortuga_veloce04.18.09 - 11:42 pm
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