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My life passed before my eyes today. My friend and I were riding down La Brea today after work(rush hour). We almost got taken out by this asshole in a stake-bed production truck. We were in the suicide lane taking up the lane(as we should); this fucker starts honking, cuts off the middle lane traffic, flies passed us, and then tries to run us off the road. This is unacceptable! We tried to catch up, but the lights and traffic weren't in our favor. I was so pissed I could hardly ride(I was shaking) I guess I'm new? I've been riding to work almost every day for eight months. It's ten miles round trip. I've had a couple of close calls. Nothing like today. This is bullshit, and I ride super careful(I've had friends hit) I know many of you have had similar experiences. Something should be done. Too many bad drivers, L.A. non-bike-friendly roads, too many accidents and deaths! IIT'S NOT US!!! Help.
Dave
I used to scream back at the drivers, or kick their doors, or pull out my Ulock.
But then recently I remembered: this is LA, and any one of these assholes can have a gun. Almost getting run over is one thing. Getting shot over it is another.
Keep a stiff upper lip and try to be zen about it. You're better off.
Another trick I'm thinking of using is getting the license plate # and telling local law enforcement that the driver is stalking little girls on a playground.
Or, say that he tried to pull one in, the heat will be on his ass quicker than flies on mashed 'taters in a dry-spell, in Mississippi!!!!
We all hear you, Dave. It may seem hopeless, but ce can inspire change. We're going to have to be patient and persistent though. We need to continue to ride and to continue to educate the public whenever possible. Slowly we can make a difference, even here in LA.
-Not necessarily in Mississippi, but whenever you leave picnin food out in hot weather, the flies are quick to attack it.
Do I have to explain everything in drawn-out, terms?
And another thing that happens to me more often are car high-beams being turned on when I'm going down my usual, stretch of road.
I always wonder if a laser-pointer, or a handheld, 1,000,000 CP spotlight will be better for dealing with that.
As long as I don't shine a P.D. chopper, I'm okay.
This is what goes on in the mind of a typical asshole type driver:
" OK. Theres a cyclist in my lane. I'll have to try to pass him if he'd just get more over to the right... WTF? Why is he now taking up the whole right lane? MOTHERFUCKER THINKS HE OWNS THE ROAD! No I'm not going to change lanes just for this little piece of shit. I'm going to BUZZ right past him and scare the shit out of him. YEAH! Teaches him to ride on the road. Get the fuck off my road and get a job! Fucking hippies."
Dave,
Thats sucks man.
I have had similar experiences on La Brea during rush hour.
That no stopping lane is really dangerous. Asshole drivers get the idea that it is a passing lane instead of an opening up to allow people to get right make turns and not slow down the rest of traffic.
I had a very minor collision with somebody on that stretch a few weeks ago.The guy was sneakin' into the "suicide lane" and cut right into me. I was pretty slow speed and I saw it comeing so while we did collide didn't falll or get hurt. I got in front of him and said "you hit me"... he threw up is arms pissed off that I was making such a big deal about the fact that he cut me off and ran into me. he pulled into a gas station driveway that happened to be on the right, screeched through the station and took off down fountain.
Some guy in a car told me to chase him and I was like "fuck that, I have to get to work".
I often think that I should have a quick and handy camera readily available to photograph asshole drivers, cars, and plates.
After watching "I Am Legend" for the bazillionth time on DVD, I'm now wanting to get myself that small-ass, camera that Neville had on his glasses while documenting his research.
Everytime I'm on the road, record and document my daily trip, then review the footage while at home, or work.
Hell, I could utilize this when I get back on the rig to settle potential, accident claims that are usually brought up by the same, four-wheelers harassing cyclists.
The unfortunate truth is there is nothing we can really do about it. Sometimes all we can do is, exactly what you're doing, vent. I know it is a very hard pill to swallow, but unless someone gets hurt and all the info is collected, not much can be done.
Twice a week, I shepherd kids on training rides. Some of these kids look like kids, small people on small frame bikes, yet some people don't care. We been buzzed, got all kinds of things thrown at us, yelled at, almost anything drivers can do short of out of their cars. The toughest thing, for me and the other adults on the ride, is remain calm. Once the driver has sped way there is nothing much to be done. The sooner the kids learn this the better.
Don't get me wrong if the driver get stuck at a light or whatever, I will do all I can to get the driver out of his shell, then the odds are even.
There's always going to be this problem. I agree, Dennis. But, I think if more people are riding regularly and influencing other drivers to cycle, then more and more word will get out about bicycle conciousness. It's not going to solve the whole problem, but I think we can make an effect after time. Dont you think?
I wholeheartedly agree that experience is the best teacher. The more people we can convince to ride the better it will be for everybody. I'll say it in this thread like I have on numerous threads. Most times all it takes is one ride. Once someone has experience the joys and challenges of cycling, it will be part of their mindset.
I guess what I was trying to say earlier is ' If there is nothing you can do about a situation, there is no use stressing about it'. The truth is there is nothing you can do to a driver that just sped away. Being angry and stressed about your helplessness will only harm you. As cyclists we all know that it is inherently dangerous even with all the precautions we take. It is what it is.
an MR day ride during rush hour, that's what's needed!!!!
Orderly, maintaining a lane, stopping for lights and obeying cvc's and passing out the cvc's referencing bicycles then there will be education.
More of like, a "Critical Manners & Etiquette" ride.
Instead of getting all "buck-wild", we carry around DMV pamphlets with the bicycle-section bookmarked, and hand them to the motorists as we putz along in an orderly manner.
It will continue like this only up until the first shot is fired upon the Mass.
Then it will de-evolve into a Critical MoshPit!!!!
is he reporting to the same police that ticket us for not having sufficient wattage on our front lights during smcm?
as sort of an older, professional kind of guy who rides to work in bev hills i hope that this does a little to propel the idea that bike riding is ok and a realistic alternative. but that's probably delusional, here in la. i'm just a kook on a bike, i'm sure they think, who rides because he doesn't own a car (have 2 and 2 motorcycles).
like every other rider i daily deal with maniacal drivers hating me and trying to keep my own anger from ruining my bicycle experience. i've been successful keeping my .45 acp safely at home and not in my messenger bag... but that insanity is tempting when the shit goes down.
as depressing as it sounds, i know i'll be riding until i'm crunched under a car and can't ride anymore... then i'll have to go back and join the masses in their metal boxes.
Nothing we can do? How about a coordinated driver education campaign? LACBC isn't doing it, but that does not mean that we can't do it.
Many drivers do not think we belong on the road, so we cannot expect them to be courteous (someone spelled that out well earlier). Other cities have campaigns targeting drivers, we do not.
Alex Thompson where you at? Let's get on this shit.
Seriously guys you would be far better getting a conscious by petitioning for higher fines for infractions. At least we would get somewhere to curb behavior.
When I say 'there is nothing we can do'. It is specific to the driver that did something and sped away. You can't chase them and even if you do, what can you legally do if no one was physically harmed.
In fact if you chased them down, pulled them out of the car and beat them up, you are more likely to get charged. Sure proactive measures work but when dealing with a specific situation when someone cuts you off and speeds away, there is nothing you can do but accept as one of the perils of cycling.
It happens even when your in a car; if someone cuts you off there is nothing you can do except maybe honking the horn. Anything beyond that borders on road rage.
One thing to remember if you plan to retaliate is make sure you have an escape route, you can't outrun a car if there is no traffic. Also be aware of other cyclists around you.
I once did a mass ride where we got caught in traffic. We started splitting lanes, one irritated driver tried closing the gap, between him and the car on the next lane, forcing cyclist to stop. Most cyclist were able to go through then one cyclist decided to kick the car's mirror off. The cyclist got away but the next cyclist got the brunt of the man's aggression. To make it worse, traffic opened up a quarter mile down and now we had an irate motorist looking for the cyclist.
I have been turning more to smart-ass remarks as I pass people making jack ass maneuvers, in favor of out-right rage. I am hoping that being a smart ass is just a stop on the way to a zen like acceptance that not everybody on the road is safe and thoughtful and I shouldn't take it so personally.
(of course seeing your life flash before you eyes, while being juiced up on adrenaline and endorphins, sometimes the emotions are hard to get a handle on.).
@ USER1
I don't think higher fines will do this trick.
Some dude in $80,000 hummer doesn't care if a ticket is $200 or $500 if he drives like an asshole always and only gets caught once or twice a year. Its just a cost of doing business.
***
I think it's really got to be a combination of education and more enforcement. We need posters in every DMV. A bicycle question on every DMV test, way more road signage and more enforcement/ support from the police and parking enforcement.
Simple gestures like that would cost very little in the big scheme of things and would all but guarantee a steady increase in ridership.
I meet people all the time that are 100% down with the IDEA of cycling in LA but 100% not down do deal with the traffic situation.
I've gotten in quite a few fights, broken windows and mirrors. As scnomad says.. always have an escape plan.
Lots of traffic in the area.. so it is easy to catch em one or two lights down the road.
Usually trucks like the one below try and run me off the road.
I usually just knock on their windows to startle them.. and for the most part it works. As they are usually on their cellphones. When they escalate it.. then it gets pretty hairy.
Yep it is China/Korea town.. and yes.. the freeway sucks too.
You'd think it be the stereotype "azn's can't drive" but most trouble I've run into there.. have been mostly white. (on my bike) .. the freeway however is a totally different story.
"I don't think higher fines will do this trick.
Some dude in $80,000 hummer doesn't care if a ticket is $200 or $500 if he drives like an asshole always and only gets caught once or twice a year. Its just a cost of doing business. "
Me -
You're making the assumption that everyone can afford a stiffer fine. EVERYONE is concern about their driving points if they're paying for insurance. That includes businesses. When your insurance bill goes up 30-50%, you bet there's going to be a big population that'll give riders a break.
Sure the points you make would be good for the cyclist, but try finding non-bicycle people supporting your cause. Try finding support for funding, good luck.
On the other hand, you can find across the board support for an increase in the amount of fines for certain infractions. And there's minimal cost of implementing it.
They've raised the fine for infractions in constructions zones. And you know what? I don't feel any more hatred for construction workers than before they raised the fines.
BTW, I don't have any hatred for construction workers. Either before or after they raised the fines.
You want to love people out of the cars? I wish you and RB the Best of luck!
Raising the fines INCREASES bicycle consciousness. Showing that they are a solution to traffic congestion increases this worthiness.
The way it is now, we're seen at about the same level as cute little Johnny next door. He just got his first brand new shinny bike.
i couldn't believe this happened to me this week. two dudes in a car rolled up behind me on Figueroa, rolled down their window, reached out and started to drag me along with their car by my backpack. at first i couldn't even figure out what was going on, then tried my best not to EAT SHIT while they laughed hysterically and peeled off before i could catch up.
Man that's fucked up steph. I hope you can take steps to see that that never has a chance of happing again. Good thing is that you're alright, relatively speaking.
@Borfo,
How do I know I'm right about what? I made several points.
Okay, that right there is worthy of getting shot for.
I mean, speeding by and cutting you off is one thing.
But, extended harrassment/intimidation like that sort of borders on assault/kidnapping.
Hell, even if you don't want to carry a gun, then pack some of the Dog-Spray.
I mean, if it works on purebred, Pits and German Shepherds, then mutts in a piece'o'shit are fair-game.
I am all for off'in a mofo... but this has been solved already...
I was a bike messenger in Beverly hills in 2003. When you have to ride everyday (for whatever reason) during rush hour, your raising your chances of getting hit. We are in a major metropolitan area, with a lot of immigrants and tourists driving around our city all day. Aside from a bike lane on every street, THEIR IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT....sorry. We've been trying for years. Not even awareness will work. Some people will just not listen, or understand for that matter. I mean, their are thousands of people that come to Los Angeles everyday, some for the first time. How do we keep up with the awareness? This is not a new phenomenon. I see how new riders might assume that since they are experiencing it for the first time. So I will tell you the answer to all your problems right now...
Say it with me...."SIDE STREETS DURING RUSH HOURS".
Seriously, I haven't had one close call since I have lived in L.A....(10 years now) using this system. You cannot assume people are looking out for you....AT ALL!!!!.
If it is that tight of a squeeze on a major road like La Brea, don't risk it. Take side streets or even hit the sidewalk for a second. I have been riding bikes since I was 5, I am 28 now. I have never actually gotten a ticket for riding on the sidewalk if I had to. The bike messengers in Beverly hills use the side streets and sidewalks all the time. We know our chances of getting hit are higher, given the fact that we ride back and forth on Wilshire Blvd everyday, all day long.
Now if we can get them to build more bike lanes and put up a lot more signs... that would help... albeit, only a little.
Recap: Side streets first.... sidewalk in a pinch.
Do what you have to do, to survive the jungle....growl..
If it was a Warner Bros Truck it was probably Phil (he's an asshole!!!)
When stuck in a vehicle with him I always hide in the back seat and lay down because I'm afraid he'll get me shot when he's calling some guy on the side walk a carnie.
One time he aimed for a large puddle of water just so he could spray some older lady standing on the curb!
Karma needs to hurry up and get him. If it doesn't I'm gonna.
woah Steph - that is super fucked up. I'm really glad you're physically ok. I wonder if that would be considered attempted murder?
@ Turbo - that is super fucked up, and I'm really glad you're ok too. Dunno what you could have done... it's infuriating when you can't catch up to them to pound on hood of tthe car or push the passenger side mirror all the way back..
the ball bearing thing is great - supposedly it shatters windows pretty well.. but I also heard it's majorly illegal... don't know for sure though..
I used to fantasize about carrying a squirtgun filled with ink for all the assholes in suits that would make lame comments when I rode in NY..
Now I like the slow tturn of the head, eye contact and the long mean stare that you hold long enough to make people really uncomfortable and snide comments like "Wow. Bright move buddy." but that only works when they have no way of peeling off.
Didn't mean for the thread to turn into a 'how to' on dealing with aggressive drivers but here's another piece of unsolicited advice.
The best tack is avoidance but if that doesn't work try getting the driver out of the car. Aggressive drivers are bullies; their cage empowers them, but once out of the car you have the advantage, provided they don't have a gun. Assess the situation and if you have a fair chance, take your cycling shoes and helmet and have at it. If not, get on the sidewalk and take off.
If you find yourself in a situation where you or a buddy can get access to the car keys, grab them and toss them further up the road.
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Ridazz Roulette!
stick a magnet on ur frame somewhere and carry around a few of these.. works great in santa monica on shiny expensive cars driven by assholes.
OK, fine. I get your point.
dude, trust me i would have popped the guy if i would've been packing