Old Trains : Los Angeles
Thread started by
braydon at 10.22.09 - 3:39 pm
Los Angeles hasn't always been a car centric society. Tram lines at in the early 1900s were the dominate transportation system, they were built primarily for the purpose of real estate development, if people can get to more places easier, the real estate worth increases. However tram lines left areas undeveloped, and at the time of car was gaining traction, with the cars biggest benefit being that you could develop in more areas, increasing the value of all Los Angeles property in more areas.
If we want better bicycle infrastructure, it needs to be shown that it improves the worth of Los Angeles real estate, and businesses in Los Angeles, and get the businesses and real estate that would be benefited together, to move it forward.
If more people ride bikes, there is less space needed for the requirement for parking structures. In downtown Los Angeles there is a good chunk of it that's just dedicated to parking cars. Without that need there can be more businesses and housing can use those spaces. Parking structures would have a hard time making ends meet, and would be forced to find an alternate means of business.
Another benefit of bikes is that they are quiet. On residential streets, the value of a home can be increased by changing two lane roads into one-way, and the other way can be a bicycle path. Homeowners are happy because there is less car traffic by their homes, increasing it's value.
Here is an interesting article on the old trains in Los Angeles:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/rearvision/stories/2006/1749886.htm, and why they disappeared.
What are some other benefits?
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That map always trips me out. You could get from Newport Beach to Alpine Tavern all basically on rail.
toweliesbong10.22.09 - 3:44 pm
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from class action
i had a far fetched idea a long time ago to have a class action law suit by the people of los angeles against the the car companies and goodyear for dismantling the old rail system. or who ever was responsible. could claim they put all our health at risk with pollution. i know, you would probably need prof. but it was just an idea.
buckchin10.22.09 - 3:44 pm
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By the way:
WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR?
Actually just saw that movie... it was pretty good
md210.22.09 - 3:44 pm
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the benefits... and its the best argument is:
HEALTH
Environment
thats the key. its no longer about real estate and such,,,
green is cool now.
md210.22.09 - 3:46 pm
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Oh but it is about Real Estate. When Portland introduced their streetcar 9 years ago, property values went up 400% in area adjacent to the route.
Foldie responding to a
comment by md2
10.22.09 - 3:50 pm
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but this is about bikes... which would be a hard sell....
exercise is rarely seen as convenient. Street cars are more convenient in that sense.
Real estate in a bike centric area would appeal to people with $$$$, but who already ride.
However... i do think the trend... the bike trend... primarily due to the eco issues, is appealing to young affluent kids with dough. So streets like Heliotrope are booming, sort of...
silverlake, echos park real estate skyrocketed. but people moving in are more about the scene, than bikes. Most drive...
I just hate to work within the economics we disagree with when discussing as such. It would be great to be able to focus on the virtuous aspects of promoting bike-centric policy... rather than playing into-- it will make us all rich
i know it matters, but maybe a craftier argument is yet to be found.
md2 responding to a
comment by Foldie
10.22.09 - 4:02 pm
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The fucking Hummer killed it ... which was the worst move ever and killed GM ......
OsnapsonJC responding to a
comment by md2
10.22.09 - 4:08 pm
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From the
article, GM was also part of the transition from the train lines to cars, (and buses). GM invested in buses so that they could compete with the train lines so that the trains no longer took priority on the streets improving the experience for cars.
braydon responding to a
comment by OsnapsonJC
10.22.09 - 4:13 pm
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"exercise is rarely seen as convenient."
but it's FUN!
braydon responding to a
comment by md2
10.22.09 - 4:21 pm
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One good thing about trains and Diesel engines in general is that their pitch never changes.
I live a 1/2 mile away from the train tracks and can sleep easy due to the train rumbling, but never accelerating and whining.
At the same time, I also live right smack next to a 50 mph road and I swear there are drivers that literally like to gun their engines like assholes when going near a residential.
bentstrider10.22.09 - 4:51 pm
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Trollys wins over buses in my mind too because they can take priority over the street better than a bus can. I wonder if those old trains let you take a bike on them.
braydon responding to a
comment by bentstrider
10.22.09 - 5:21 pm
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Don't know why they wouldn't.
I was also surprised when I took some layovers in some Southern cities(Dallas, Atlanta) and found they had some sizable, inner-city raillines there.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by braydon
10.22.09 - 5:26 pm
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Let's do a bike tour to Dallas, and Atlanta! haha....
braydon responding to a
comment by bentstrider
10.22.09 - 5:30 pm
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Speaking of Los Angeles, we are now the home of the greatest news headline ever!!
"Dodgers' owner Frank McCourt fires wife Jamie"
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers-mccourts23-2009oct23,0,3940366.story
md210.22.09 - 5:45 pm
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If you're trying to appeal to the general public, the best possible argument for making the city bike friendly is that it improves property values.
2010-2011 is going to see the second half of the housing collapse as the Alt-A/Option ARM mortgages begin to fail.
Bike lanes / controlled intersections / sharrows / paths, are, in terms on all the other infrastructure Los Angeles has to deal with, cheap as dirt.
Neighborhoods where it is safe and pleasant to ride bicycles also tend to be safe and pleasant for being a pedestrian, or for being a kid, and this brings a ton of value to the homes in that area.
Falling home prices don't just mean that homeowning Angelenos get cranky, it's also very expensive for the city, as property taxes are based on property values, and L.A. needs property taxes as a main source of revenue.
TL:DR - Bike friendly communities are good for cyclists, families, homeowners, and city tax revenue, so it's worth a little effort to make L.A. rideable.
JB responding to a
comment by braydon
10.22.09 - 8:59 pm
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"I wonder if those old trains let you take a bike on them."
That would be info I would love to find out about too. I'll start asking some red car buffs as I see them. I'm curious if they were given a bunch of shit like they are today. I'm betting not.
User1 responding to a
comment by braydon
10.23.09 - 12:58 am
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There is a "Red Car Museum" in Seal Beach, and there are other old Pacific Electric Railroad cars scattered around in places like Travel Town in Griffith Park.
Walking into one of these cars, you see there would be plenty of space for some bikes. Given how much more common it was for folks to cycle 100 years ago, I can't help think there must have been some allowance for bicycles on these trains.
Regarding the old rail lines, check out Google Maps and start at Watts. There is a straight "scare" running from the current Blue Line track all the way down to Santa Ana. Its the old rail bed for the PER line.
Now that would be a cool off-road ride, except for the fences at many road crossings and in some spots, structures have been built over the old line.
3 years ago, a friend and I walked from the Santa Ana power house (yes, its still there) to the county line in Cerritos along the rail bed. We had to climb a lot of fences and gates on the 16 mile hike.
Highlight was the old rail bridge across the Santa Ana River. Its sealed off on both ends, but we found a way in to walk across it.
Creative Thing responding to a
comment by User1
10.23.09 - 8:03 am
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Ridazz Roulette!
