Schwinn Quality
Thread started by
BillyB at 02.5.07 - 4:27 pm
What do you all think of Schwinn Bikes these days?
I was at the Schwinn site looking up some stuff on my 1978 Varsity fixie and went over to look at their new line up.
I bought a brand new Schwinn MTB in 1994 - it was absolute crap. The outer ring to the bottom bracket shell broke off, the casing of my rear hub shattered, and even the seat came off it's rails!
Anyone buy a newer one? I hear they're selling them at Walmart these days.
At what point did they go down hill?
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Probably because they are now made in china. Walmart, go figure.
Joe Borfo02.5.07 - 4:47 pm
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Yeah, schwinn = total crap these days IMO. They used to be great, back in the chicago days, and the road and track Schwinn Paramounts are still really sought after, as are Chicago-built cruisers. But they went the way of globalization, and the frames are pretty much tig welded taiwan gas pipes now. I think I also heard the same thing about Wal Mart.
I recently e-mailed them about the Schwinn Madison -- I like the look of the frame. However, they won't sell it as a frameset, which leads me to believe that a big part of their business plan is selling shitty components (like the mtb bottom bracket you experienced.) Most major bike mfrs are all about planned obsolesence these days. Real bummer.
I think the down hill slide was probably late 80s/early 90s. I know there are some folks out there who can give a detailed history.
City Hobgoblin02.5.07 - 5:01 pm
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Schwinn went Chapter 11 (bankruptcy) a couple times in the 80's and 90's. It is currently owned by Pacific Cycle (probably the largest US manufacturer--owns: mongoose, GT, etc)
First, pretty much all bikes (unless its custom or euro and costs $$$$'s) are made in taiwan or china. That goes for about 90% of the parts as well. So, just because they won't sell you a frameset means they are trying to sell shitty components? Take a lesson on production and marketing. The bike is only $525. And that's with F/R brakes, freewheel, track cog, and a decent set of parts. That's a pretty good deal for someone starting out, which what it is marketed for.
And yes I think you can find some under the Schwinn name at Walmart, but I don't think you'll find it in the catalog. Just like all the shitty components that Shimano and Campy make for the low end don't appear in the catalog.
Dobie02.5.07 - 5:44 pm
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Schwinns haven't really been the same since their first 1993 bankruptcy. I'd steer clear of anything from them made after that year.
Before then it really depends on what tier Schwinn we are talking about. Paramounts from 1993 and earlier are awesome hand-built lugged steel racers and tourers made in Chicago or Waterford, Wisc. They still fetch top dollar and many models are collectable. Some of their other steel higher-end late-70s-early 90s lightweight bikes are decent rides, too, and are often good values. Most of these are not American made, but the Japanese ones are actually quite good. Lots of people dig 1938-1978 Chicago-made fillet-brazed bikes like the Superior and the Super Sport. These bikes aren't that common and are great exemplars of American hand-craftsmanship. Varsitys and Continentals are the entry-level bikes, made in the old Chicago factory that closed in 1984 -- heavy but bombproof.
For more info:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chicago-schwinns.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/schwinn-braze.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/varsity-shaddox.html
Right now I'm pushing an 1989 Voyageur, their Japanese-made loaded touring bike, and I love it.
cabhauler02.5.07 - 8:08 pm
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I'm sorry, I really think starting internet squabbles is the biggest waste of time imaginable, but I just gotta reply to "Take a lesson on production and marketing."
To answer the question, I'm contending that they are producing low quality bikes and marketing them to people who are new to cycling, and I think there are better bikes for your money (IRO, Surly, etc come to mind) To respond to the attack, I happen to be a statistical programmer at an economic consulting firm so I've had some lessons in production and marketing.
So listen, sorry if my opinion about Schwinn bothered you. The original poster had a bad experience with a new Schwinn, and I posted because I think he is on the right strand of thought. Your opinion is totally valid too; if you like schwinn bikes, awesome, that's one more cyclist on the streets of LA. The only reason I'm posting is because I felt like you were calling me a dummy.
Peace, and safe riding.
City Hobgoblin02.6.07 - 10:38 am
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At the risk of interjecting myself into this debate unneccessarily, I don't think the respondent in question was calling you a "dummy" or disagreeing with you all that strongly, he was just calling it as he sees it. Tone of voice can be a hard thing to convey in a post, so we've probably all said things that didn't get interpreted the way we meant them.
Thanks to all for the Schwinn historical info. My experience with a recent Schwinn wasn't too bad; I needed a bike in a big hurry (like 2 hrs before a ride) and the only place open that I could find one was Target. I bought a mtb for $129, ended up riding it for over a year, modifying it during that time to be more to my liking. After about 1500 miles, the bottom bracket gave out so I replaced that. I don't ride it much these days, but for what I paid for it, no complaints. It helped get me cycling more, and when I was ready for something better I knew more what I wanted.
mr rollers02.6.07 - 11:01 am
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I didn't read anything personal against anyone in Dobie's comment. I think the poster is just riled about about the way things have gone with most manufacturing -- price-driven, cheap labor, planned obsolescence, disposable products. It's a subject that can fire anyone up.
Schwinn never really sold framesets back in the day unless it was a Paramount or later the Prologue. I doubt they would today since most of their business is importing cheap Chinese bikes for sale at Target and Walmart. They are trying to get back into bike stores, though.
It's the ultimate irony, since until 1993 Schwinn positioned itself as a premium bike-store-only brand, sold like cars with its own independent dealer network.
If anyone wants to know more about this subject, track down a copy of "No Hands: The Rise and Fall of the Schwinn Bicycle Company, an American Institution" by Judith Crown and Glenn Coleman. It's out of print and used copies can be expensive but you can check it out from at least a couple of local libraries.
cabhauler02.6.07 - 12:36 pm
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Schwinn's product lineup is confusing.
They have some really nice, cutting edge bikes and then they have the Walmart bikes.
That's like Mercedes Benz selling a Ford Fiesta.
That one I bought new in 1994 was about $400. Totally not worth it.
You should be able to get a decent bike for that amount of money.
I've been wanting to get an electric bike, so that I could ride to work and not have to take a shower. Schwinn's got some pretty cool models available - But it's Schwinn and I don't trust them.
BillyB02.6.07 - 2:18 pm
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When they went downhill is debatable. They first started outsourcing to Asia in the late 70's having some of their lightweights built by Panasonic in Japan. I have a '77 Japanasonic Schwinn and it's a kick ass bike. That said, I don't think it was the outsourcing as a whole that put them in the crapper as much as their Chicago plant closing and thus no longer producing the fantastic electro-forged offerings for the masses to afford.
Pic is from a classic Schwinn ride this past weekend, Apple Crate cockpit. Cleeeeean...
Jeronimo02.6.07 - 2:37 pm
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all i know is that i got my hands on a nice 73 varsity a few months ago and have been having a blast riding it
yeah its a heavy ride, but for me a bike is too heavy when i can't pick it up and carry it up a flight of stairs. i can pick this one up, therefor it isn't too heavy
bicigol02.7.07 - 10:20 am
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Hehe, didn't mean to rip on Varsinentals! They're solid bikes that will be around long after we're dead.
I come from the "whatever works for YOU, menghe" school of cycling.
cabhauler02.7.07 - 10:26 am
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City Hobgoblin,
I's sorry if you felt I was calling you a "dummy". I felt you were unjustly giving Schwinn a bad name without actually knowing. You were presuming that because they makes some crappy bikes and they are made overseas that they are all crap. Like one above poster mentioned they do have some nice "cutting edge" type of stuff (Cyclingnews.com actually has an early review of their new top end road model). But they also have crap too as most mid-large size companies do (its actually how they make their money). But you can't always assume that cheap=crap. To say that they are "pretty much tig welded taiwan gas pipes now" is very presumptious, and lacks any research into the product line (or the industry for that matter). I'm sure the Schwinn track bike in question is a solid steel frame of decent quality. Plus they are supported by (as I mention earlier) one of the largest suppliers in the country (Pacific).
Oh, and Surly and IRO are both made overseas by the way. AND, if you have seen one unpainted as I have, you would see that the quality isn't any higher.
One more thing. I don't have a particular like/hate feeling for schwinn's (although my GF rides a suburban). And I don't live anywhere near SoCal.
Dobie02.7.07 - 3:24 pm
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I have a 1975 Shwinn Le Tour turned into into a light duty firetrail riding single speed! this thing has one hell of a strong frame :)
Parakeetwheelman
ParakeetWheelman02.14.07 - 8:18 pm
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I read the article on Sheldon Brown's website about the Schwinn Electro Forge process.
Pretty amazing stuff. If you have a late 60's to early 80's Schwinn, check out where the chain stays meet the bottom bracket.
This was one of the last welds they made in the production process, so they couldn't clean it up as much as the other welds (or they didn't want to because it would weaken it). I've never seen metal joined together like that. Very innovative stuff for back in the day.
On my 78 Varsity, I've laced up a pair 36 hole touring rims with stainless steel spokes. It's freaking bomb proof!
BillyB02.15.07 - 8:26 am
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My daily commuter is a '78 Continental and grocery getter is going to be a '79 Speedster that just needs painting and assembly to get running. Those old Electro-Forged frames will last forever under regular use.
Jeronimo02.15.07 - 6:20 pm
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Schwinn is a sad, sad story. They were once the best quality bikes you can buy. Being a vintage schwinn enthusiast, I cried when I saw them in department stores. Classic case of a guy starting a business that his kid ends up running into the ground. Shame
la duderina11.24.08 - 3:05 am
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Chicago plant closing and thus no longer producing the fantastic electro-forged offerings for the masses to afford.
bingo. it all went downhill from there.
la duderina11.24.08 - 3:22 am
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I still thought those "S-Bikes" that were featured on the first season of USANetwork's, "Pacific Blue" were pretty kick ass!!
bentstrider11.24.08 - 3:58 am
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city:
IRO and Surly are both made in Taiwan as well. If you're paying $600 for a new bike, it was made in Taiwan or China, period, and so are all the parts. There's a couple exceptions, like Cannondale's aluminum frames but the parts are from overseas anyway.
stevestevesteve11.24.08 - 10:08 am
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I 've got a yellow Continental - manufactured in October 1972. Bombproof frame and wheels. Nobody builds anything like it these days.
NixonTwin11.24.08 - 11:59 am
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oops..
I suck at html...
go here:
http://www.schwinnbikes.com/paramount/
adrian11.24.08 - 1:30 pm
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If I'm not mistaken, the only thing Schwinn made on the original Paramount was the head badge. The 70 year anniversary one, I doubt they even make this.
User111.25.08 - 12:15 am
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Those new Paramounts are made by Waterford, which used to be the old Paramount factory from the early 80s until about the mid-90s.
For that money, I'd rather get a Waterford, an IF, or an old Kelly. If I want a Paramount it's gotta be an old one.
Schwinn really did make Paramounts back in the day, in a special section of their Chicago factory.
More details here:
http://www.waterfordbikes.com/site/company/parahistory.php
cabhauler11.25.08 - 3:09 am
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la duderina, you must have read that "No Hands" book, about the rise and fall of Schwinn. Good stuff!
cabhauler11.25.08 - 3:11 am
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I got the impression that Waterford is a separate company run by former employees of Schwinn. Wiki reads in part,
The company is operated by Richard Schwinn, formerly of Schwinn Bicycle Company, and business partner Marc Muller. Schwinn (great-grandson of Ignaz Schwinn, who founded Schwinn Co. in 1896) was vice president of production for Schwinn Co., and Muller worked for Schwinn as a designer of the company's hand-crafted Paramount racing bikes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterford_Precision_Cycles
User111.25.08 - 10:55 am
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Waterford is a separate company, but it makes sense for them to build the high-end Schwinn stuff as well.
Like the 70th anniversary Paramount. Only 70 framesets are being made.
http://www.schwinnbikes.com/paramount/about-paramount/index.html
Beautiful, but one website says it's $7k.
JB11.25.08 - 12:09 pm
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