cops dont know the law?
Thread started by
tortuga_veloce at 11.21.08 - 10:48 am
I was cited for 21202 while riding to work today. Here's the deal: I was making a left turn, so I signaled while riding in the #1 lane. I was also approaching a right turn only lane. (Obviously to me this citation was in error of parts 2 and 4, below. I want to fight it, and I don't want to mess around with extentions. I want to do this right and win it for all of us, at least with one officer and his partner.
Does anyone have any advice?
Here is the text of the ticket (parentheses are mine):
riding bicycle #1 (left) lane 22' prior to lt turn lane causing e/b traff to brake
And here's the text of the law:
Operation on Roadway
21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations:
(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized.
(b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.
Amended Sec. 4, Ch. 674, Stats. 1996. Effective January 1, 1997.
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This sounds like a clear case of the officer involved clearly not knowing the law.
I take it the guy/lady acted like an asshole?
What did they say when you explained to the that you were following the law as written?
I don't have any advice for you ... but yeah, I think you should fight this on it's merits.
Get real legal advice!
I don't know alot about law stuff but it appears that the text on the ticket may be enough to get it it dismissed.
Perhaps this should also be brought up to the watch commander.
trickmilla11.21.08 - 11:11 am
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fuck Principle.....get an extension.....delay...written declaration....then buy us all beers.
barleye11.21.08 - 11:12 am
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I would say just explain what you were doing and where they were wrong on the citation.
If anything, back this up with a map of your route to where you were going and use this as a backing plate to getting the ticket knocked off your back.
bentstrider11.21.08 - 11:13 am
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oh noes! You caused eastbound traffic to brake!
I've never had to deal with anything stupid like this, but as you've already figured out, CVC 212 section 2 pretty much says you can be where you were.
wiz_vanmeter11.21.08 - 11:18 am
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he was actually very polite, but he felt that i wasnt riding safely, and that i was holding up traffic, and therefore needed to be corrected. it's been my experience that nothing good ever comes from arguing with a cop for more than ten seconds.
granted, i should have been carrying the cvc with me. i tried my best to explain it to him, but he told me that while there is no set distance in which i can ride in the #1 lane, there is a limit.
if anyone has ever talked their way out of a ticket with an uninformed officer, please let me know.
tortuga_veloce11.21.08 - 11:21 am
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What exactly do you mean by doing it right. Do you want to change the cops understanding of the law or do you want to have the ticket dismissed by you being found not guilty or both?
sexy11.21.08 - 11:24 am
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I want the ticket dismissed and I want the officer to learn something. But mostly, I want the ticket dismissed.
tortuga_veloce11.21.08 - 2:26 pm
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next time you know you're in the right and know the idiot cops are wrong demand that the watch commander come to settle the dispute. you have the right to get there badge numbers names and to request that the watch commander make an appearance on the scene.
Eddie GOpez11.21.08 - 2:37 pm
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so i'm putting together a handbook of legal advice for all cyclists to carry with them. aside from the cvc's does anyone have any suggestions?
tortuga_veloce11.21.08 - 3:50 pm
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NOW TO BE CENSORED.....
....FUCK THE COPS !!!
LOL
eddieboyinla11.21.08 - 4:01 pm
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I have found that memorizing the cvc, including section numbers, s close to word for word as possible usually works. If you can throw section numbers at them, they usually get confused, as they don't usually know these without looking them up, and think "Oh shit this guy/gal knows a thing or two about teh lawz".
They usually back off then.
A printed copy is the best backup, however you're better off knowing it off the top of your head, then pulling out the printed one as backup.
If you ride freak bikes, there's a couple other sections of the law you should memorize (specifically for tall bikes, cvc 21201 section c) and, as of yet I havent heard of anyone getting a ticket for a fixie in LA, but that's cvc 21201 section a, stating that all you have to do is be able to make one wheel skid on clean dry pavement.
Also, let em write shit for equipment, etc. as cvc 21202, as it is the only bike law they can ever remember/know/seem to use, if they put the wrong section on a ticket (in effect citing you incorrectly) I think it invalidates the ticket (it's arguable anyway).
Also, if you're doing the same or greater speed than the traffic around you, you are legally entitled to us ANY lane you want.
Basically 21202 restates the "slower traffic keep right" rule.
FuzzBeast11.21.08 - 5:38 pm
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His partner actually told me that he thought 200' was reasonable for making a left turn. On top of that, I went down to WLAPD (nicest cops in LA) and the three guys at the desk laughed at the ticket and told me "he's a nice guy, but he LIVES to write tickets."
Thanks for the section numbers. I'm putting together a cyclists' legal handbook. I want to have it ready by the end of the month, while I have time, so keep em coming! I want to put as much relevant info in there as possible!!
tortuga_veloce11.21.08 - 5:54 pm
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this : http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c1a4.htm
is the entire section on bikes.
FuzzBeast11.21.08 - 6:03 pm
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question: when coppers ask for id, can we ask them for their badge number and name
so if they don't identify themselves
we don't indentify ourselves?
just surious.
aksendz11.21.08 - 6:37 pm
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pretty much in general you can do that. they may be assholes about it, but if you keep up the question, they're SUPPOSED to give it to you.
They're also not SUPPOSED to give you retaliatory tickets either...
Oh, and just for fun... ha anyone else ever noticed the change in attitude you get from cops if you don't cower in fear or get all agro in front of them? Like if you treat them like they have no real power over you, they gets all confuzzled...
like the strange expressions we got from the cops that night in expo park when we sat there laughing and joking while they tried to be all macho and shit...
FuzzBeast11.21.08 - 6:54 pm
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tonight is my last night of being underage!
aksendz11.21.08 - 7:00 pm
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Ridazz Roulette!
FIGHT IT