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So I went on my second smcm yesterday and I have to say it was really F.U.N. Except for the tickets of course. That being said.....
I noticed that people were itching to get out of the city of santa monica.... which seemed to defeat the purpose. Part of the fun on this ride was that everyone was obeying the laws and we got split into groups of 50 slow moving cyclists per red light. This made things difficult for the police to control. Most people dutifully road legal. Because of that we ended up playing a huge game of cat and mouse with the cops. It was funny as shit and I'm sure it cost the city of sm a lot of extra money as skd pointed out.
Rather than try to escape to venice it became obvious to myself and others that we should have just been riding completely legal and let the bikes ride where they may even if the mass becomes split, it eventually came back together and in the process confused traffic AND the cops. At one point I laughed out loud as the cops sped ahead anticipating our direction and we suddenly turned right on the green and the back part stopped when it went red. What a conundrum!
I saw cops being dicks and ignoring drivers who broke the law. I saw them giving tickets for every little infraction.
I know I'm the last person to be suggesting shit for smcm but fuck it... Next SMCM I propose the following:
1. EVERY single rider in the mass ride completely legal. Ride as though you are a single rider and you obey every law. Stop at reds stay to the right lane flash the lights signal the hands. You must be absolutely disciplined. The cops will likely ticket you if you don't.
2. Do NOT ride streets that have a bike lane. This way cops can't ticket for not riding in the bike lane.
3. Don't worry if the mass gets split up into many parts. It will all come together and groups will find other groups eventually.
4. Set a perimeter in the beginning. Say some street boundaries that all groups attempt to ride within. Make it inside the worst of the traffic zones and freeway entrances. Make it hell for drivers. Because riding legal is more of a traffic night mare than just parading through.
5. Video tape as much as you can. Looks like the cops ticketed for at least a few non violations last night. These should have been taped for evidence.
6. If you gonna be a bear. Be a grizzly! If cm is a show of peaceful protest of bikes then make it monster. Make the city spend so much money and time trying to police it that it breaks the bank! Fuck santa monica anyway!
The result is complete bicycle cluster fuck chaos and the cops won't be able to do shit about it so long as everyone is disciplined enough to ride legal. And for fucks sake stay in SM don't run to venice. Make these coppers work for their pay! Haha!
One more thing..... if the cops get to crazy just pull into the nearest private shopping mall and re-group.
Last night we all stopped at a stop sign and to our left was two coppers on motorbikes. They were waiting for us to go. We were waiting for them to go. For about 20 seconds NO ONE went. Perfect! We should have never gone. The cops were themselves holding up a whole line of cars in the process of waiting for us to go. For a while no one budged until we finally did. Bummer! Next time we are in that kind of situation we should go 1 at a freeking time! Then the cops look like the assholes for blocking their lane. Hahahaha.
To emphasize, we should ride "scared" of wrong doing. Its exactly what they want but the reality is that it makes things waaaaaay worse for traffic when we do. The coppers get a dose of their own medicine and in the process fuck up everything time 69!
Last comment cause I of all people should not be saying shit about smcm but someone on the ride mentioned that previously everyone got off and walked their bikes through 3rd street promenade.... fuck yes! Imagine 200 people walking straight through that mall of dead souls!! Hahahah walk right on up to the next street and get back to riding letter to the law legal to whereever the bikes may ride. Game the system. Do what they tell ya cause they don't know that what they want is the exact opposite of what they really want! Hahah
ONLY A RIDA COULD COME UP WITH THAT SHIT, SOUNDS LIKE THE PERFECT SOLUTION.
I'M SO INTO THAT, MEET UP THEN GROUPS OF TEN HEAD OUT, STOP AT A STOP SIGN, ONE AT A TIME ( MIND YOU. ) THEN MEET UP LATER, AT A PREDEFINED AREA, WE MUST ANNOY THE SHIT OUT OF THEM.
EVERYBODY HAS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS HOW SMCM WILL NOW BE RUN, OUR GOALS, PLAN OF ATTACK, ETC...
i'm triple posting this since there are now a number of threads dealing with SMPD...
a couple of ideas i suggested at LAFXD:
1. split up into 2-4 smaller rides and ride in different directions, crossing paths along the way
2. periodically get off of our bikes, on very well traveled streets and take over the crosswalks. it sends a mixed message, as cyclists are NOT pedestrians. but, i can just see the officers exploding with anger, when all along wilshire boulevard, cars are stopping for pedestrians simultaneously on several blocks. this would create a traffic nightmare. same with main street.
it shouldn't be too difficult for them to see that by impeding our progress, they are creating a traffic problem far greater than the one we pose by corking intersections so we can safely and fluidly travel through their city.
we should stay on well-traveled (high-profile) roads in santa monica, especially main street. SMPD are less likely to harass us with hundreds of spectators watching from nearby shops and restaurants. maybe we should do a main street ride, simply riding the loop from navy up to the (fucking) police station up near colorado.
Kurtz I'm with ya man. Sounds good. Imromptu walking bikes across crosswalks. Do whatever ya feel like whenever you feel like as long as its completely legal.
Although I thought it was equally as fun to duck out into the side streets because it gave the cops the false sense of security that they finally chased us away and it gave us plenty of opportunities to switch direction when the coppers got ahead of themselves anticipating our direction!
Next thing you know another group emerges from another side street and the nightmare starts all over again! Hahahahah
No way kyber broadcast this to everyone everywhere loud and clear! The point is that we are riding completely legal. We are obeying all laws. We are riding letter of the law "scared". We are giving the SM coppers exactly what they want. Which, because they are short sighted dum dums, is exaclty what they really actually don't want hahahahah I'm fucking dieing over here. Spread the word. SMCM is teh new lulz.
This thread got me thinking about some of the above tactics, which I've seen put into action before, like the take-over of a cross-walk...
I love riding my cycle, I ride for transport and mostly just for the freedom and feeling of it. However, I also have to drive a car, and when I'm in my car I'm usually trying to get to a certain place by a certain time...
Anyway, take the cross-walk and do your thing, but at some point be respectful to someone who could be a rida-in-disguise who may have to use their shitty metal motor boxes, ya know?
Not that I've ever actually been stuck behind a ride, but it could happen. Basically, I'm just saying SHARE THE ROAD... or else I'll give you terrorist cretins a hood ride!!!
Just walk your bike across the street when the little man appears. Then stop, make a 90 degree turn and repeat, making sure not to enter the intersection once the orange hand starts blinking.
Get 100+ cyclists doing the same thing at all corners of the intersection and watch the fun start.
i really thing the pedestrian thing should be done spread across several blocks of main street or wilshire boulevard simultaneously. if we did 5-10 crosswalks in a row, at the same time, they would be fucked. but, again, it sends a mixed message: riders aren't pedestrians. perhaps this tactic is best reserved for if/when the SMPD starts shadowing/harassing us. once they start, we simply get off of our bikes and start crossing streets at crosswalks.
What you are talking about is fundamentally the principle behind Crimanimal Mass's Crosswalk Craps. I too think it is a good idea. In fact, SMCM thought it was a good enough idea that we did it on two separate occasions on Main St.
That said - Mass is Mass. It's not Midnight Ridazz - something Roadblock has frequently pointed out. One of the features of CM is that the ride direction, or more generally operation, is decided collectively, chaotically.
The acts of civil disobedience, or disruptive civil obedience, that you propose here are somewhat more regimented than CM can feasibly be. My experience has been that planning more organized activities for CM is usually disappointing for the organizer, because even if the group is initially willing to go along, things typically devolve.
Crimanimal Mass was originally conceived of in the Council of N as a series of rides incorporating ideas such as the above. Actually, variations of each of the above were proposed. But, winter wore on, and the SMPD backed off, and the impetus was lost to implement these ideas.
Do we really want to change Mass while fighting for it? I say take the fight to the enemy. If SMPD wants to harass us one day a month, lets playfully return the favor 4 days a month.
Look for a ride soon. It will be fun, it will be epic.
YES! Let's borrow a page from unconventional warfare for SMCM! It's obvious that we're too easy a target as a large group, the cops can just prey on the people at the back, have a pair of them peel off to write a ticket, and another come up behind and wait for the next victim.
Split the ride up into several autonomous groups of 10-30 riders. Each group is given the next regrouping point and timeline, and is free to make up their own route. The groups meet up at the regrouping point, decide on the next regrouping point, then SIMULTANEOUSLY head out in all four directions and branch off further from there.
This will make it impossible for the cops to coordinate their actions. It will also raise the visibility of the ride to EPIC proportions. There will be riders snaking their way through dozens of blocks of the Santa Monica grid every which way AT THE SAME TIME. Traffic gridlock on a massive scale. If they want to fuck with us, LET'S MAKE IT HURT!
I'm not saying to change what critical mass is.... I guess reall all I'm saying essentially to never leave santa monica and to celebrate the cop's crack down rather than fight it.
Stay in santa monica and ride legal and ride wherever you want but just be sure to absolutely ride legal and be happy about it!
Riding legal en masse creates a huge headache and mess that the cops can't control at all. Be weiners about it and throw their shit back in their face and have fun watching all the naturally formed groups playing Some Major Cat n Mouse gamezz with the SMPD.
They may have to eventually capitulate and let us all ride as one mass if they are smart! Hahahahahah
Set up a perimeter in proportion to how many people show up!
The beauty of yesterday was that the groups were formed naturally by the length of the lights rather than anyone trying to coordinate anything. And even more beautiful was that groups would roll different ways at will. Just like a bunch of mini critical masses all in one turbo lame city like santa monica under the duress of some meany weenie coppers. they were in over their heads!
"Split the ride up into several autonomous groups of 10-30 riders. Each group is given the next regrouping point and timeline, and is free to make up their own route. The groups meet up at the regrouping point, decide on the next regrouping point, then SIMULTANEOUSLY head out in all four directions and branch off further from there. "
I applauded your enthusiasms for SMCM and your what you call "new strategy". Welcome to the ride and to the discussion. Alex T. pointed out that not only have these ideas been discussed ad nausium, but to make them happen is not possible without people understanding the plan, and wanting to actually be part of it. It sounds as what you are talking about, happened by chance last night. Sounds like it must have been fun by your description.
The reality is that those who have came to CM is expecting a certain thing. They are the same ones who say, "hell with this" I'm not going back to SMCM "it sucks" or "its no fun" or "why do I want to put myself through that again". Good luck trying to get them to even listen to your idea. You obviously get it. There is a few on here who get it also and tried to implement these ideas, among others before. The problem is getting everybody to go along with the plan. You will be fortunate getting more then two people on this board to go along with this idea. Go ahead call me a naysayer again. I'm just talking about the reality of the experiences I have encountered on SMCM.
Maybe since you have been successful with making things happen such as this website, 50mm, wolfpack amongst other things, you might be the one to lead this. The reality is that those who have tried these ideas before are the same ones with the unsuccessful or tepid response such as SpokenDissent and Roll with it. Maybe it is all personality. At least with CriminalMass we got debate on this forum and media coverage for the freeway rides.
I'm with you. I'm with all the ideas to jerk the SM police around and cause a big traffic mess for the this city that has complained the police into action against the CM. The trick is to get everybody to be part of it. Anybody who knows me, know the only reason I go out to SMCM is for the fight to stand up for our rights to cycle and peaceably assemble on our bikes without harassment from the PD. I never fancied the ride.
I heard some argument about wasting SMPD financial resources fighting CM. FYI Santa Monica PD is the highest paid force in the nation.
To think you are wasting there resources having them go after CM is a laugh. If they weren't out harassing CM they would be in Izzy's deli on Wilshire, scoring a free meal. There is a certain amount of police allotted for duty, and they will get paid if they harass us, fight crime, sit at the station and cruise the web wait for calls, ride on the beach on ATV, sit at the office in the pier, or flirt with whoever on the 3rd street pomade. So we are not draining their coffer's. Remember the police in Santa Monica are responding to the resident complaints about the ride.
I'm not trying to lead it and I'm not trying to impose any rules on it.... what happend last night was BEAUTIFUL because the only ones imposing rules were the cops and traffic laws themselves!
The only thing I'm suggesting is a to celebrate the police and perhaps set up a perimeter (much like the warriors ride) where everyone ride. the rest is dictated by random shit like traffic lights which break up the mass into randomly sized autonomous groups and just encouraging everyone to obey all traffic laws just like the cops want.
Those that decide not to obey the laws don't have to, but they will be subject to getting tickets. The autonomous groups will roll as they may... which is wherever the fuck they want. The likely hood being that they will want to regroup with the other fractures which will get broken up by other traffic lights.
The plan is that there is no plan! Just celebrating to cops short sightedness. Break the bank!
the SMCM ride where all played it safe, broke off into groups and did everything legally was fun. It happened what 6 months ago? But along with doing everything legally, we had cops forcing different groups down different paths, literally pushing us into the curb with their cruisers, a few times I was brushed by a mirror, and had to swerve, hoping not to hit anyone around.
The ride ninjas. ANyone remember those?
Remember the walkie talkies?
Remember the journalists?
We have tried all this before, we have even tried talking with the cops (not me, but a collect from within SMCM who didn't claim responsibility, but explained the stances).
I'm curious if anyone has done any deep research into a class action lawsuit for harassment by the SMPD. I remember it being mentioned before. Just it never seemed to get past the rumor mode.
I know your not trying to lead or impose any rules. I'm just saying to get a group to follow a suggestion is SRSLY tough. It has been unsuccessful in the past. Hopefully be the grace of God, I can be at the next SMCM, and see these celebration happen.
Just keep on coming out, so you can see how these ride transpire.
I would also encourage all of you who got violations, to fight every ticket. I heard of people saying they just paid the tickets at the last SMCM ride I was at.
Barleye, can you give the link to how to fight tickets?......................
I totally agree, regardless of how much resources are available to the SMPD, bleed them. Eventually someone is going to get a hold of the accounting costs that it takes to trail the bicyclists. Over the past nine or 10 months it probably has exceeded $250,000 maybe more. The gasoline and the manpower. That's a lot of money chasing bicyclists. The taxpayer isn't going to be happy about it.
I think riding weekly or bi-weekly in Santa Monica is the only way to keep up the pressure.
Besides the we made a lot of friends with the residents of Santa Monica. They were happy to see us. Better to have bicyclists riding down the street than criminals.
How about we have a SMCM support ride. Either an hour and a half before the actual SMCM, or on another night. This way it can be planned and lead, with people showing up who want to follow the laws/signals/perimeter idea. I think there is enough frustration among SMCM riders that we could get a decent turnout, and keep it going as long as possible. Just because it's not called SMCM doesn't change anything, and the cops don't know the difference anyway.
I love this idea of turning the "protest" into a giant game. Make if F.U.N. for the whole family. Entertain the drivers. Entertain the pedestrians. Entertain anyone who has the slightest sense of humor at all. And follow all laws to the letter, to the point that it becomes a massive parody.
Put some uptempo jaunty tune on the sound system and play the crosswalk craps game for a few minutes. Then move on and do it again somewhere else. Sort of like an extended flash mob (ah, remember the summer of 2003?).
I think it was Alec who brought up the idea of a "bike town" a while back, where we would stage a massive convergence of cyclists on some concentrated area, turning it into an impromptu cycle city for a day. This is excellent. The best way to get the support of the community at large is to demonstrate that bike culture is integrated with the city. There will always be those who see us as an exclusive group of anarchists/hippies/hipsters/stereotypes who party on bikes, but the more positive interactions that we have with the non-biking community, the more support there will be for cycling in general.
Whether or not these ideas can successfully be integrated into a SMCM ride, they should be done. I think that the more fun you make the activities, the more likely people will be to join in spontaneously. Maybe not everyone, but hopefully enough to get the whole mass involved in some way.
TOO MANY LONG POSTS...I GOT BORED SO I MAY BE REPEATING....
A lot of Ridazz are morons....and these morons won't follow Roadblock's ideas. My idea months ago was to criss cross each other on the downtown North/South Streets.
1. they were merry pranksters
2. they are tottally on lsd ( imean they are playing an invisible game of tennis.
3. how are you relating that to smcm? just out of curiosity..
1. Ride COMPLETELY "scared straight" letter of the law legal. (Don't worry about those that choose not to, they will prolly get tickets)
2. Stay in dowtown Santa Monica (instead of running away to venice)
That's it!
No "rules" or "plans" or "leaders" are required... its actually m.o.a.r. fun to CELEBRATE that everything will just fall right into bike fuck chaos F.U.N.orama and roll with it. See ya'll next month!
reason: the one thing repeated on this thread is "we came up with that idea months ago" - "we tried to implement that strategy" - "we had a meeting at a council and discussed" etc.
Those that have had this idea before and discussed this it seems more and MORE people are now coming out of the woodwork with the same idea to NOW back you up! That is a great thing. This was my first "real" SMCM and I never understood what it was really about until Friday. I get it and I think the cat and mouse game would be super fun and super intense for SM. I get why SM sucks now.. I get the feud.
What I am saying is that more people, like me, get it as well -- that's more numbers then 6 months ago.
Problem is getting people to do the individual group things - well, give people numbers (1 - 5) and that is there group. Each one has a "leader" - someone to remind them of the laws and remind them to stay together and etc. Those that have spoken on this forum about implementing this strategy can be there and help out in many ways. Each group number goes in a different direction, yada, yada.. (this is just an idea)
Now we become a force. A force of people who believe in something and that is a whole lot more than just people showing up for a ride. When people believe in something they follow the rules and they stay on point and though chaos is inevitable -- that is why it's called SMCM, is it not?
i am loving the unity and the love and ideas of this thread. 4 times a month is a great idea, and each and everytime riding by the book would pose such a headache to these terrorists that patrol our streets that it just might work. more cameras need to be present. more lawyers need to ride with us.
Do what ya want but I predict 4 times a month = less riders per ride = less chaotic fun. Just sayin.....
The only thing we have to change is our attitudes towards the cops. Just ride legal. The rest will break the bank! I'm guessing that this exact scenario happened early on in san francisco and that's why they now allow it to happen as one contiguous ride......
This should be repeated in all police state cities. Who wants to start a bev hills cm? A glendale cm? A burnbank cm? How did I become such a cm fan all of a sudden. Must be that I quit smokin herb.
it helps that san francisco has one ride. by keeping attendance high, they are forcing the government to pay attention to them and aid them in traveling smoothly through the city. unfortunately, we have a critical mass for every g.d. neighborhood. this keeps each individual CM small and relatively insignificant.
do you think the cops would give you that hard earned respect that you think you deserve if you stopped shooting off fireworks in their respective cities?
Highest paid, municipal police force.
I wonder what sort of requirements you need to be recruited into their organization?
H.S. Diploma and lots of finger-crossing after you get past the initial exams, that's what.
I still look at these guys in disbelief after watching that show, "Pacific Blue" for the four years it was on.
I once wanted to be a member of their so-called, bike-patrol.
Then I see them in action and think to myself,
"what kind of circus-shit is this?"
That's when I started focusing future, LEO-career choices elsewhere.
With me, it's not about the money(same with trucking), but what sort of action you'll be seeing everyday.
As long as I never find myself planted behind a cubicle or some shit, I'll take it.
Oh, and SMCM will continue the good-fight, and whatnot.
What about a boycott by bicyclists, and those who support a green sustainable future, of all businesses in the city of Santa Monica. Exempting Helen's, Performance bikes and other small bike shops since they obviously support bicycling.
Bicycling around Santa Monica, letting the police expend gas and manpower is great but why not dwindle the city's coffers further by reducing it's tax base.
@skd Honestly, that sounds pretty silly. The effect of that strategy on police finances would be minuscule, and even to the small extent that it could affect them, no one would make the connection between funding and treatment of cyclists. I say target the police behavior that's actually a problem, as directly as you can, and try to gain the support of the broader community so that political pressure can be placed where it's needed. Win them over with love, so to speak.
A boycott is not to affect the police as much as bring pressure on the city itself. Businesses, especially in these hard economic times, will fear any loss of revenue. Especially if the word got out to European tourists who flock to the beaches yet are sensitive to issues of civil rights and environmental concerns.
Any direct action that affects business, will have a chilling effect.
Businesses who support bicyclists, can sign a letter to the city demanding they cease and desist continued harassment and heavy-handed action by police.
Those businesses will be given a sign or sticker for their window, showing that they support bicycling in Santa Monica and are exempt from the boycott.
There is no love here. What happened to us on Friday was blatant and naked aggression. Pressure must be applied to all aspects of the city of Santa Monica. If business gets on board, great. We will encourage that money be spent at those establishments. If not, then its obvious they support the actions of the police.
"Good morning. You've never heard of me, but I'm from a special interest group centered on a political issue that you probably don't give a fuck about. Unless you are, or pretend to be, on our side of that issue, my friends and I are going to encourage people to stop patronizing your business even though you had nothing to do with the situation that we're upset about. May we count on your friendship and support?"
The "love" I'm talking about here is basically the support of the community, not the treatment of the cops. And for getting the public on our side, I think that a blanket boycott is precisely the wrong way to approach the issue.
Confronting the cops and telling them that they're being ridiculously heavy-handed is a good way to raise awareness about the issue. But confronting the community and telling them that they're either with us or against us, well, that's just a good way to look like a childish bully.
I think PC nailed it, so a lot of what I'm saying is redundant. But here it is, without the snark: A boycott campaign would be doomed to failure and, I think, likely to backfire as well. If the goal of this action is to build public opinion in our favor, we need to be much more savvy in framing the debate.
When this issue comes to a head, people should be thinking of it as "overzealous police vs. harmless bicycle rides," not "overzealous bicyclists vs. all of Santa Monica."
boycotts won't work when there is MAYBE a maximum of 800 people who do SMCM and even then, a lot of those people are from out of the area... thousands and thousands of people are in SM everyday spending all kinds of money. CM type Cyclists spend very little comparatively. and there is not much sympathy for a ride that is notorious for causing traffic problems. that's quite a negative to overcome. going to city hall was a waste of time obviously. now it's just about wearing out the city or the city wearing out "the cyclists"
the best thing you can do is just change your attitude towards what CM is for Santa Monica. CM, for now, is going to have to accept being split up. which seemed more fun in my eyes. I mean personally I'm into the completely random chaos of cat and mouse games with the cops. random fractured groups rolling around regrouping and getting split up makes it like a game of hide and seek and much more interesting than just riding around in a loop or stopping at parking lots for half hour breaks every few miles.
just wait at the pier light and on green go straight then for the next group on the green go left next green go right etc etc. until everyone is out rolling about. eventually we'll all run into each other and meanwhile confuse the hell out of the cops! that's pretty fun!
be sure to play the high card which means be courteous and ride legal. that is about the only way to win any public sympathy... and it's not likely enough to out weigh the money interest's political power in the area.
We did follow the rules and stopped at all the lights and stop signs.
At least most of us did.
The residents of Santa Monica were supportive of our ride, as they came out and cheered us. We have no issue with the residents and I told a few to call their City council and complain about the heavy-handed police presence.
As a group we don't make a stop in Santa Monica, unless it is to regroup. So the CM isn't spending money in the city anyway, we always roll to Venice for our purchases. Any boycott is not aimed at the residents or even businesses, it is aimed at the government policies. Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. used boycotts to attack government policies.
Finally, the SMPD is ordered to act against the SMCM. They don't do this on their own. They are simply storm troopers, following orders. Their strategies and actions are devised by the department, but ultimately they are acting on the orders from a higher authority. Whether it be certain city council members or certain affluent community members, someone else is calling the shots.
PC you missed my point. They are being paid no matter what they do. The same amount of money already allotted in the city budget is going to be spent no matter what action they do.
Is it a waste of resources? That is arguable. If you have been the party that has complained about the CM ride, then it is money well spent. If you see that it is harassment to bicyclist then it would be considered a waste.
Thanks for the nice brain compliment. Your kind words always make me feel confident, warm and fuzzy.
Your point only makes sense if you assume that any and every use of those expensive man hours is of equal value, an assumption that not even the dumbest Santa Monica taxpayer is likely to make.
i still don't really see the point in all of us riding around separately and following the rules/laws. what makes CM FUN is riding in a large group. what makes it effective is asserting our right to the streets. if we need to disrupt traffic for an hour or so to make our point, big deal. that, as i always understood it, was the original intent of CM.
boycotting would largely be ineffective, i agree. but causing such major traffic problems (via crosswalks whatever) may incite the business owners to pressure the PD to let us flow on through.
ok, back to work for me....
am I the only one who doesn't think the police are the problem?
The people of santa monica are upset with us.
On KCRW, the broadcast community meetings and anyone who listened in could hear a lot of local residents and business owners voicing protest against the cyclists, saying that they found their activities highly disruptive to business as well as daily life. Are we sending the right message by further complicating things for them?
I, for one, make it a point to make friends with people who are not on bicycles in hopes that they will be drawn to the possibility of cycling for transportation and for fun. Alienating the local population, tourists, and police by initiating or nurturing a power-struggle dynamic seems counter productive. Rather than a reactionary "stick it to the man" attitude, it would make more sense to enlist the public and "the man" in our cause through a play of reverse psychology. How can we make this more fun for the locals? How can we help the police do their jobs? Clearly these thoughts are not tenets of the critical mass movement but that is why rides like Ride Civil have sprung up in places like seattle and I can't help but wonder if they might be more effective at earning respect for cyclists in the communities where they take place.
Local residents in santa monica don't like cyclists? Thats funny cause they have so damn many of them. Surely there are more beach cruisers with tourists on them than there are MR Ridazz...
Any portion of the city exposed to large amounts of cyclists is going to see a backlash from the residents who are stuck in their cars.
MR run lights and corks interesections to keep the group together and limit the number of intersections we impact. Rides that split up and cover 4 or five intersections at once cause more disturbance than running one red light.
Roadblock's idea of following the leter of the law in santa monica will go a long way in making this point clear to the police. Its better to lets us run through safely and quickly than to tie up multiple intersections and cause uneeded traffic.
I say next SMCM should be super slow and stop for every red light every stop sign. If they won't let us ride without harrasment then let them WAIT behind us while we placate their undersexed over aggressive police department.
the point is that there is simply no alternative so get used to it and have some FUN with it.
either a city and it's voting citizens likes CM, doesnt care enough (or have the funding) to do anything about CM OR hates CM. obviously Santa Monica hates it. Thus the cops targeting the ride. This even after all the talks with police and city council. there just doesn't appear to be a broad community support for CM because none of the council members feel threatened at the voting booth to stop the police "harrassment".
Sure, they may seem supportive to people who go to these city council meetings but in reality to them CM is likely seen as a bunch of people who have nothing better to do than ride around and have fun at the expense of traffic delays. Or even worse they see it as purposefully causing traffic... it's a huge negative to overcome. probably will never be overcome until there is literally a "critical mass" of SM citizens riding along and voting... the ride would need to grow to 1000+ of local citizens before anything could be possible politically....
as for inciting shop owners to act for change? imagine if any group, gang, car club or motorcycle gang could just bully the shop owners of any city into lobbying the police and local government to allow them to run red lights at will or else. that's gangster! not gonna happen.
I know I wasnt the only one who saw the F.U.N. of rolling around SM in search of fragmented groups and annoying the shit out of SMPD. they truly did come off as dicks but that's their job. They have to do the bidding of someone in a higher seat.... somewhere in city hall they are trying to figure out what to do about the ride that causes traffic chaos in this lil richie rich town...
"I say next SMCM should be super slow and stop for every red light every stop sign. If they won't let us ride without harrasment then let them WAIT behind us while we placate their undersexed over aggressive police department."
EXACTLY
besides, I've seen group rides spend a ton of time kickin it at parking lots for an hour or two. what's the big deal about waiting at a traffic light for a minute or two. if ya ride slow enough and time the lights you could minimize the wait....
I'm guessing that Santa Monica's next step is to legislate for local ordinances that restrict group riding some how. I know NYC was trying to do something about NYC CM.... was anything successful? seems like it is still going strong....
I think RB has hit the nail on the head. We can accomplish our political goals AND have more fun by putting 10-20 groups of 10-20 riders all over the city of Santa Monica and then watching the cops trying to deal with that. Heck, with 400 riders, that's 20-40 separate group rides all over town. It would actually minimize our disruption of the regular citizenry but maximize the aggravation to law enforcement - so long s we do it right and make sure we all cross paths often enough that they don't decide that they "succeeded" in breaking CM up.
I'm envisioning something similar to the mayhem of the sperm/egg hunt in West Hollywood, but without groups sticking to each other the way they did on that ride.
I am actually very much in favor of breaking up the mass in order to make a more widespread and pervasive cycling presence throughout the city. I think that is a great idea. It's the party where we are concentrating on making it more difficult for law enforcement and for traffic that concerns me. I don't want to see cyclists demonizing themselves to locals and authorities as trouble-makers. That is all.
by definition CM makes things difficult for automobile traffic. the only ones making it more difficult are the cops (and city hall) by not allowing a contiguous group to ride.
after a few months of chasing down small rogue groups it's going to become obvious that letting the group ride as one is better.... but they may still try to end the whole thing with legislation against group riding. not sure what the steps would be after that.
Yeah I think Thats the point. If we're legal they shouldn't have a problem withit right. Theres nothing aggressive about this idea. Its actually more along the line of OG Critical Mass. Exisiting and riding legally is not aggression.
keep it routeless maybe just set certain times to meet at different locations... and everyone can ride randomly around and eventually get the location legally ;)
I thing meeting up every half hour or 45 min at maybe 5 pre-determined locations is a great idea. each time we regroup the cops will have a chance to catch up and we can lead them 100% legally to their next point of shame.
The meeting places and the time which we should meet can be passed out as a route card on paper before the ride Also maybe there should be maybe 4 or 5 phone numbers on the card that can be called for catch-up.
Anyone know a good supplier of CHEAP bikelights we can use so that we can have lights on hand for those who don't have them?
Your point only makes sense if you assume that any and every use of those expensive man hours is of equal value, an assumption that not even the dumbest Santa Monica taxpayer is likely to make.
speaking as a former seven year resident of Santa Monica, they are of equal value. Same money spent.
Just as the residents of The City of Los Angeles, it cost the same if a police is beating you up on May Day or, if they are chasing my Dad down for two days. Although it will be more expensive in the long run to pay you for a settlement after the law suit for the beat down.
Sad but true. I would say most residents see it this way. With city workers its a matter of cost, not the value or quality of the work. It still all a matter of opinion on what you feel your civil servants should be working on while on the clock.
remember, you have the legal right to assemble, and you have the legal right to ride in the road... and you shouldn't need a parade permit or a police escort or criminal intent to practice that right.
if critical mass is not liked by the police, that's a problem with police priorities and thats why you go to their bosses.
if critical mass is not liked by the residents (and I don't think that's true) that is is critical masses problem. we are everybody's ride, that's why we don't have leaders. this is one of the reasons CM needs to reject violence and radicalism.
critical mass is partly about rights and protesting, but a lot of it is also about inclusionism and getting people to ride bikes by providing a community and support structure. We can't ignore that mission. if you go anywhere in the world now, you can find a critical mass and get into the bike community.
so there's more at stake than whether a couple people get tickets
or whether you have to wait a minute at a red light
Was thinking of stationing some cameras (XL1, panasonic 24p, etc.) on tripods (of course, to go along with those that are on bikes and moving) -- with enough time I think I could get 3 or more (depending on my guys and their schedules).. we should figure what intersections we would like them planted at.
Gorilla filmmaking on the street is legal as long as there are 3 people or less (why news stations can get away with it)
Let me know if I should put a call in for September and cross your fingers they are available!
and what is the biggest issue in Los Angeles today with the voting public? Ask any politician and they will tell you "TRAFFIC".
If a significant amount of complaints come in about CM blocking traffic, city official should and will respond. I don't like this either, but it is a reality, especially is Santa Monica.
Big difference I noticed in living in the two city, is that the residents of SM are in a bigger hurry and less patients when it comes to traffic.
NY's attempts to regulate CM out of existance has stalled in court, but could be coming out soon. Here's a recap from the Five Borough Bike Club:
Time is running out. The Five Borough Bike Club and several others are plaintiffs in a lawsuit which challenges New York City's attempts to suppress Critical Mass rides. The Court has given us an August 8 deadline to gather information concerning summonses, arrests and other NYPD action against bicyclists. For those of you who don't know, the suit challenges the constitutionality of recently implemented rules that require a group of 50 or more to obtain an NYPD permit before proceeding together (the "Parade Permit Rules"). The suit also challenges various other tactics that NYPD uses to target and suppress Critical Mass rides. Details on how to provide information you believe may be helpful are provided at the end of this post.
So far, we have already gathered evidence of unlawful conduct by the NYPD, including evidence which shows that:
* NYPD "profiles" suspected Critical Mass participants for selective enforcement of the law as they ride their bikes individually in the vicinity of Union Square prior to the start of the ride, as shown in this video.
* NYPD tickets cyclists during these "profiling" operations and points to them as proof of Critical Mass's lawlessness, even when the summonses were issued on evenings when no Critical Mass ride took place and/or for violations which are not relevant to bicyclists, such as "no seatbelt" [download a summary of these tactics].
* NYPD has systematically arrested and summonsed Critical Mass participants without any valid basis. The charges frequently have been dismissed.
* NYPD officers have repeatedly used excessive and dangerous force against Critical Mass participants.
As one NYPD officer candidly told a Critical Mass bicyclist while ticketing him for an equipment violation, the policy of selective and unlawful enforcement was triggered by the August 2004 Critical Mass bicyclists' protests against the Republican National Convention. We contend that such protest activities provide no lawful reasons to establish the 50-person limit on public processions, or to suppress or selectively enforce the law against Critical Mass month after month [download].
The Court requires us to collect all relevant documents, photographs and videotape by August 8, 2008. If you believe you have evidence that is relevant to the suit, we ask that you send it to us.
This is not an offer to provide individuals with lawyers or legal representation. We request that you voluntarily provide information for use as evidence in the lawsuit. If you can help, please send us a brief email describing the information you have, and including a daytime phone number where you can be reached and/or an email address, to: [lawsuitinfo] [at] [5BBC] [dot] [org]. Please contact us about the lawsuit only through this email address.
i used to go this ride religiously, until the crackdown started.
i havent gone back in about 2 years. but this discuss, this new strategy has got me back. even though its gonna be tough to get there on time from work (i'ma have to drive out - i hate driving to rides).
i was on one of the early crack down rides... and when we started following the rules, and waiting at lights the group started (naturally) breaking up. next thing you know, our group is going up one street, then you see another one go down it... it was AWESOME!
hey Sexy I think PC is talking about the VALUE of the enforcement. It's wasted money if SMPD is patroling a bunch of cyclists versus good valued money if the police are fighting against crimes like pick pockets robbers and rapists.
I saw this.
http://santamonicapd.org/CrimePrevention/NNO.htm
" Everyone is invited to the Santa Monica Police Department's National Night Out Block Party."
1.I have to ask, Who plans a party even that lasts for 2 hours on a weeknight?
2. Wouldn't it have been fun to have a MR crash the block party ride.
hey Sexy I think PC is talking about the VALUE of the enforcement. It's wasted money if SMPD is patroling a bunch of cyclists versus good valued money if the police are fighting against crimes like pick pockets robbers and rapists.
I hear what you and him our saying. Police don't just fight crimes like those mentioned above. They do things like pull over car speeding through neighborhood where the resident complained because they thought the kids couldn't safely play in the street. Also a big issue in SM is homelessness. Some people who don't live in SM would see it is a big waste of police resources to enforce vagrancy laws, when a majority of residences of SM see this as one of the biggest issues that the police should be dealing with in SM. You really don't know how the resident of Santa Monica are feeling about this. I would guess they are responding to the resident complaints. Why else would they do the selective enforcement that they are doing.
Again, welcome to the ride. Welcome to the City of Santa Monica.
Kinda reminds me of that seen in COLORS where Duval tells Sean Penn. "You want to take him down for a rock and you don't even know the neighborhood."
Damn sucks I missed such a well participated debate. Even though just about every idea was floated out there months ago. I floated the idea on staying in a really small area around 3rd street promenade and it absolutely nowhere! The idea was to flood around a 16 block area. No one and I mean no one thought it was a good idea. Basically everything RB said was my position too. I still believe it's the best route to take. What's not really discussed is how to do it. If we rode like we are motorcycles, that means NO MORE than two to a lane, and spacing of one car length for every 10 mph MINIMUM, then we could cause havoc with a relatively small group. Yeah the more the better, but alot of disruption can be had with even just 100 ridazz.
I stopped going to SMCM cause it was soooo freaking predictable. It was make a B-line out of SM. Ride down Main st, Venice traffic circle, sit around and ride back down Main. Yeah ok there was stop thrown in somewhere.
Sorry for getting in on this thread so late, but I had work to do. If we do something like is outlined above, I'm in.
Roadblock -
How did I become such a cm fan all of a sudden. Must be that I quit smokin herb.
Me -
Yeah no kidding! I remember the bad old days where you were pooh poohing anything CM and wanting us to love the drivers out of their cars. Where did all that love go?
Well anyways, welcome to the dark side, we've been expecting you.
sexy -
If a significant amount of complaints come in about CM blocking traffic, city official should and will respond. I don't like this either, but it is a reality, especially is Santa Monica.
Big difference I noticed in living in the two city, is that the residents of SM are in a bigger hurry and less patients when it comes to traffic.
Me -
So CM is to blame for traffic congestion? Police are to assume that citizens can analysis the problem? What makes these citizens such experts? They've had some special training or what? Hell, lets just not show up and spare these rich SM citizens any heartache! LOL
SKIDs is posting from Ann Arbor, Michigan. Unless I am mistaken, he is posting from the basement of my dad's house. He should be in bed, based on the amount of sneezing he was doing on the phone.
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Ridazz Roulette!
Just as Roadblock said.
f.u.n.
am I the only one who doesn't think the police are the problem?
Its gonna be so much fun.
SMCM The Tom and Jerry ride.
