Cowboys VS Indians ride?
Thread started by
Roadblock at 03.4.10 - 4:32 pm
ok, I LOVE what FMLY is doing with their rides I hear they are rides of legend. Their video is on the front page... Anywhere that Funderstorm has played is a friend in my book.... all that good stuff. BUT I don't feel comfortable with this ride title. But I'm just one person and I'm speaking up about it and I will fade back into the night if no one else second's this feeling... I feel like the title is disrespectful and the costumes and get-ups on the ride have potential to be disrespectful to Native Americans. It's like celebrating the war between these two groups... and furthermore it was a dirty war to begin with in which many many innocent people were killed and hd their land stolen. I wouldnt teach my children these games, I'm not sure how I feel about that title up there....
How about it be changed to something else.... "cops and robbers" for instance... oh wait.
I don't know juss sayin'.
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What about benstrider's idea? "Transplants & Natives"
Joe Borfo03.4.10 - 4:38 pm
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i thought the same thing initially... but considering how prevalent the Indian costume b.s. is found in society... i figured i'd be nitpicking or looking for something to talk crap about
I figured, leave it alone.... but I agree 100% with your post.
I actually went to a sustainability (for schools) conference in Ojai recently. It was disappointing to hear a native American speak about how many of practices natives used to cultivate the land and such, are NOW being used by local and such, because they see the benefits in taking care of the Earth,
anyhow, one thing that sucked in my opinion... is that you have these amazing private schools (high schools, jr. high, elementary) all competing to be more GREEN/ Sustainable... they talk highly and pride themselves in their practices and willingness to be better stewards of the earth.
Sadly, I looked around at those in the room, and I was one of few colored persons in the room.
Natives get pushed out, their land and traditions trampled on, then when the people of OJAI discover they're past residents screwed up.... they pride themselves in changing... BUT theres this missing element in the whole thing:
why do all these rich kids (and it just so happens most were white kids - but thats a different story) get to benefit from learning about sustainability, Indian traditions, get a bomb-ass education on land that was stolen???
Its weird and screwed up
md203.4.10 - 5:05 pm
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it's just the way that it always has been man... there's always some empire rising and some other empire falling.... will it ever change? wow. hard to comprehend...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
03.4.10 - 5:21 pm
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much more enthusiasm than wetback wednesdays there RB
_iJunes responding to a
comment by Roadblock
03.4.10 - 5:27 pm
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Eastside Hipsters vs Westside Hipsters?
palucha6603.4.10 - 6:54 pm
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never mind good job ever one
Xray03.4.10 - 7:00 pm
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Shirts vs. Blouses?
Flannels vs. Corduroy?
Baggy vs. Tight?
Sneakers vs. dress shoes?
Bandannas vs. cycling caps?
full finger vs. half finger?
long sleeve vs short sleeve?
Flasher mac vs. cloak?
Uggs vs. shiny leather(for the ladies).
Boxers vs briefs(for the guys)
Wrist watch vs pocket watch?
Gold chain vs. cursed amulet?
no belt vs belt?
bentstrider responding to a
comment by palucha66
03.4.10 - 7:06 pm
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Crips vs Bloods
too soon?
braydon responding to a
comment by bentstrider
03.4.10 - 7:07 pm
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I was trying to keep it apparel-related, but whatever.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by braydon
03.4.10 - 7:15 pm
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Aboriginals and Immigrants
dave03.4.10 - 7:19 pm
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I don't think we thought that hard about it. I know beer was involved. I remember someone said the eastsiders were cowboys because they were riding their bikes (horses) further than the westsiders. The westsiders were indians because they wanted to encourage people to paint their bodies and faces. That's about as deep as it got. I regret that we didn't consider the social ramifications of our naming decision. I suppose we could have just called it "eastside vs. westside". Oh well.
Velocipede03.4.10 - 7:22 pm
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indigenous and ingenuous
dave03.4.10 - 7:23 pm
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Well that sucks!!!
C'mon...you got to be kidding???
Roadblock,
I wish you would have mentioned it sooner. Its been posted for a couple of weeks. I bought the cutest cow girl dress and was looking forward to sporting it on Saturday...I was willing to freeze my ass off.
Someone is actually going to find it disrespectful? If they do...that's lame, I totally agree with Velocipede.
I think sometimes we as people need to learn from the past and let it remain in the past (as far as negative emotions go). If we keep feeding into the whole what if people find it offensive then they will. It's about letting people know there was/is something cool about cowboys and Indians...that's all.
lebiram1303.4.10 - 8:25 pm
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Immigrants vs Border Patrol.... Wayyyy better
palucha6603.4.10 - 9:38 pm
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I hear that Rocky theme song in the background already
palucha66 responding to a
comment by superblueman3
03.4.10 - 9:51 pm
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This is very true and it's something I have been thinking about lately especially after researching the conditions of the Navajo Nation in a class I'm taking. As someone mentioned, we really didn't put much thought into it beyond westsidazz love to paint themselves and eastsidazz will be riding more. I think there is a way we can turn this into a positive thing... I might come as an actual Indian from India... But seriously, I do have some ideas of how to address this and make something positive out of it. If nothing more, I will give a speech about the conditions of the Native American people today with some options of how we can make a difference. If anyone else has other positive ways to contribute, please do.
FMLY03.4.10 - 10:14 pm
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I didnt really pay attention to the calendar - I never really do - and that's my fault. I realize it's too late, but I'm glad you guys are going to at least address the issue... it's just a matter of respect.... have fun y'all.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by lebiram13
03.4.10 - 10:59 pm
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"If anyone else has other positive ways to contribute, please do."
Yeah I have something positive to contribute. Forget about it and have fun. It's just a name for a bike ride. If you are offended by it, then you need to get some more serious problems. Having some kind of footnote about the plight of Native Americans during the ride would be ironic at best, especially when everyone is having too much fun to care about what you have to say.
Velocipede responding to a
comment by FMLY
03.5.10 - 12:28 am
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Oh oh... another AT vs Ijunes in the making?
See
THIS thread.
I'm praying we get to see a glimpse of the yeti again. Or was it king kong?
GodLovesUgly responding to a
comment by superblueman3
03.5.10 - 12:35 am
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yeah... good to hear that...
md2 responding to a
comment by ruinedbyidiots
03.5.10 - 6:42 am
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wow... you're completely missing the point.
I think RB has a good sense of the misleading cowboy versus Indians theme that has been going on long before we existed.
Its such a playful thing over many years because of the misleading story, but as I tried to point out, there are "some more serious problems" associated with the story.
No one here thinks the ride organizers were doing anything wrong. I think its a sign of a good leader and something you all should be proud of, that Roadblock can and will address the issue without being judgmental.
Its not that anyone is offended either... its just that we know so much know about the truth of the story, that the childhood playfulness should has lost all its meaning, and in turn, we should respect the tragedy that occurred.
I doubt you would feel the same about a civil rights ride, where we dress as racist, and others as victims of racism. Why is the cowboy/Indian theme much different (if not worse)in the injustice and overall death of a race/people/culture?
Its not a funny story anymore, its not something to be proud of.... THATS THE POINT.
md2 responding to a
comment by Velocipede
03.5.10 - 6:53 am
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I'm surprised that your response to these types of issues, which are very hard to understand, is that its always been this way, so what are you going to do.... its a naturalistic fallacy, but I do get your point... its not simple.
BUT for all the hope, enthusiasm, and courage, you have towards other issues bike related, wars, justice in general.... I don't understand why you seem to throw your hands up with issues related to gentrification or displacing people and such.... none of these issues are simple....
Sometimes I think what makes bike related advocacy powerful, is that it pays off in "FUN". Other advocacy groups don't really have that... I wonder sometimes if the bike movement would be as powerful if it wasn't so much fun to ride bikes and such. Take water advocacy/ surf rider... its probably more difficult to be excited about sustainable water, then pursuing a bike friendly city... or restraining from water usage, than raiding your bike.
We have something special indeed, but...ugh... im rambling
It doesn't HAVE TO be this way, in the same way, the empires that push the car industry and car infrastructure, DO NOT have to have their way. We can return/get to to a more just society, just as we can return/get to a more pedestrian/cyclist friendly society too.
off to work...
md2 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
03.5.10 - 7:05 am
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wow!!!
We're still on this?
Roadblock,
You are the man and your say is our command...how about Cats Vs Dogs?
I have a cute cat halloween costume too....Mice Vs CATS?
Computer Vs T.V.
Goku Vs Vegeta
Nice Vs Evil
planet Uranis Vs Neptune
These are some of Jadas ideas....that I think are pretty good.
Aww fuck it, how about everyone just dress up?
lebiram1303.5.10 - 7:28 am
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Immigrants vs Border Patrol.... Wayyyy better
or...
Invaders vs. Liberators
ArNG vs. Striking police force.
Abolitionists vs Bushwackers!!!!
bentstrider responding to a
comment by palucha66
03.5.10 - 9:55 am
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I don't understand how you all can get so serious about something so trivial. I'm black, and I have native american blood in me too. This country was built on the backs of my ancestors, and I still played cowboys and indians when I was a kid... My parents, who are both highly educated, realized that it was just a game, just like this is just a bike ride. It's not like I didn't learn about my roots, but there's a time and a place this kind of discourse to be effective, and our bike ride ain't it. We have a good route and some good music so come and have some fun.
Velocipede responding to a
comment by md2
03.5.10 - 9:55 am
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she came to speak at all three of the schools i went to in ojai when i was living there. there are a few places in town that are designated chumash burial grounds or something that people arent allowed to build or even step foot on. i like that.
ruinedbyidiots responding to a
comment by md2
03.5.10 - 10:02 am
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I understand... I actually agree with you that addressing this before the ride is kind of weird... almost like saying, "know look, this might not be the right thing to do, but since we're aware of this and we're open about our awareness, then I think we can proceed".
I'm not trying to mess with your good time... I'm really not... I only chimed in after RB said something.
I think (i think)... RB is pointing to the questions people asked and keep asking:
IS IT JUST A GAME? And is it worth playing?
Do as you please and have fun... I know none of you have any ill-will involved... I think its more of matter of asking whether a ride like Cowboys and Indians should be done... and it seems this forum, where rides are discussed... is the place to do so...
We disagree; so be it.
md2 responding to a
comment by Velocipede
03.5.10 - 10:06 am
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part of her discussion was about how the natives treated nature as sacred (in different aspects). Maybe modern man will laugh at some of the superstitions involved, but the point was that modern man know wants to revert to a similar sentiment.... a la Avatar...
I feel like maybe I took this too far in the discussion... Over the years, I've made it more of an aim to take serious some of the criticism towards the "harmless things we do" as kids that we carry into adulthood.
Think about how often people on the site kick around other being "gay" and such... or being grossed out by homosexuality....
I think its great teh RB is concerned about these things, whether he feels like he's being over the top or not....
I'll cosign his efforts.
md2 responding to a
comment by ruinedbyidiots
03.5.10 - 10:16 am
reply
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