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cycling is getting more popular and when any activity becomes more popular to women, there is a need for both women and men to apply old ideals about how women need to look while doing things, in this case, on bikes.
What @mechazawa said. And then there are the bike activists that scream about how these things are fantastic because taking bikes mainstream is exactly what we want, so hip hip hooray to reinscribing the same ol' bullshit. There's a pretty huge lack of imagination involved, too.
Well, I can't speak for other women, but, when I wear regular cloths and look cute I'm tricking my brain into working out without feeling like I'm working out.
As a heavier person who has struggled with weight and been on every conceivable diet and work out plan I have a really negative connotation with "exercise cloths", I feel *depressed* wearing cloths that I associate with having to "work out" - spandex, etc, and that is not conducive to my getting on a bike and riding.
When I'm dressed up and feeling pretty I'm far more inclined to ride my bike.
I want to ride around to do errands on my bike just like i would in my car, therefore I want to dress on a bike just like I would if I was in my car.
I think wearing normal cloths makes cycling seem more assessable and viable for more women, at least that is my response. When women see me wearing boots or heels and skirts on my bike then they tell me it never occurred to them that they could be themselves and ride a bike too, they thought they had to wear *special cloths*.
I think it's great that more and more women are cycling regardless of what they wear. If women begin to make the association that they can be more fashionable on a bike in a great outfit than in a fancy SUV in a great outfit then that is more women riders on the road. And that is a good thing. :)
" Paris; Hot Guys Choose Two Wheels...A Pictorial."
Actually, I was totally thinking of doing that! There are tons of hot guys and dapper gentlemen on my bike were I live (NoHo), and I've already started taking pics of them to post on my blog. LOL SOrryyyeeee.....:)
Well, I will say that although I love cycle chic, the thought of a man (Garcetti) writing a book where he basically oggles hot young chicks on bikes does not sit well with me.
Cycle Chic is about everyone getting up and riding a bike wearing the normal cloths they would wear if they were going to work or dressing up to meet friends.
And occasionally I remind the moderator (male) of Copenhagen Cycle Chic that he needs to post men equally with women,,,otherwise it's not cycle chic - it's just a dirty-old-man-who-can't-get-laid oggling girls on bikes. LOL Not that he is a DOMWCGLOC, but, that is how it can come off if only women are photogrhaped, and it can make women feel 'attacked' by the notion that they have to look like a barbie if they want to ride a bike, so the source is important too. I like evolouer and bikes by the sea and lets ride a bike (.com) since they are women of all ages and are not coming from a sexist point of view..
I take pics of men and women on bikes equally. If a man is in his seventies or older and has grey hair but is dressed nicely on a bike I take his pic too and post it as readily as I would a woman dressed in a great outfit.
Girl Power responding to a comment by alicestrong
06.1.10 - 12:43 pm
Actually, the more I think about it, the more badass these girls are. They don't wear helmets (DGAF), they induce pain on their feet by wearing high heels, and they endure the pain of chafing and discomfort with tiny jean shorts and dresses. All women should look up to these bamfs!
what's the deal with ascribing what's considered in the majority as "somebody else's ideal?" like, do you mean someone else's overbearing chauvinistic, boring, unenlightened, old, worn, non-functioning societal ideals from which these vapid females (who happen to dress well, by someone's standards) cannot separate their puny minds, or just non-MR ideals? can't everything be attributed to some ideal, or are ideas just created in some sort of vacuum? and is this like a recent phenomenon soley attributable to modern media and society, or do you think fashion trends were completely non existent in like, egyptian times and back in the day of like, native americans and the chinese (sans the internetz)...quite possibly with an emphasis on female fashion?
There is a beauty bias in the world, and that's a fact. As a professional woman, I know it absolutely to exist - I've watched my male colleagues interview and hire thin cute assistants and congratulate each other on the stock of hotness in their departments. The prioritizing of beauty is not egalitarian - that's the point. If you're a certain type of beautiful, then you're a certain type of special. We are fed female beauty standards that are heavily biased regarding age, weight, skin color. Just because consumer preferences reflect and reinforce an obsession with female appearance - and just because women buy into the beauty industry and spend a global investment of something upward of $200 billion a year - doesn't mean that in and of itself that obsession is okay.
If the Paris book gives an accurate depiction of real women, in all their varying shapes and sizes and skin colors and hair styles and clothing preferences and bike preferences - which should be especially easy in Paris, taking it in the context of Paris's cultural norms, since such a large cross-section of women in Paris ride bikes, as pointed out on the men only thread - then I wholeheartedly support the endeavor. However, if it privileges the same old beauty standard, then it's just the same old ultimately harmful bullshit.
...And let me qualify my use of the phrase "the same old beauty standard" by stating that I absolutely understand that beauty standards are historical - that's what makes it so obvious that they're ridiculous. At least in Western European history, when food was a scarcity, heavier was beautiful. Now that food is everywhere, the thinner the better. When I lived in Spain, public health organizations were starting to put out public service announcements about young women and eating disorders, because as Spain was becoming more and more a part of mainstream Western European and American culture, since the world discovered it during the 1992 Olympics, suddenly the country was faced with an epidemic of anorexia and bulimia - and not because the women in the country are heavier than women in other countries. They're a hell of a lot thinner than the average woman in the United States.
There's nothing wrong with a woman wanting to go outside and feel good about herself. But that's the point - But by buying into bullshit standards, women and the general public make it harder for an awful lot of women to actually do that.
Exactly. One way people could look at it is that through bicycling, in the riding community, women have a fantastic space within which to challenge standard notions of how we're supposed to look. It's not a perfect space, obviously, because some mainstream gender bullshit gets reinscribed...but it's still pretty damn good compared to most other social spaces we have to navigate. And this is a large part of why I love this community.
While I don't begrudge @Girl Power's desire to dress "nicely" or "dress up" or appreciate a "good outfit" on a bicycle, I jealously guard the riding community as this type of space - space where chicks can wear what they want to ride their bikes and have fun. As soon as I feel like the same old bullshit is becoming privileged and overemphasized - like in the Paris book - and that a mainstream type of womanness, a look or age or body type or skin color or whatever the fuck, is pushing its way in as the norm, I'm going to get loud, and that's all there is to it.
I mean, jesus. Doesn't anybody else around this joint get sick and tired of being "made up" or having the "right clothes"? Just slap on some jeans and some vans go outside and bomb through the city. As soon as you feel the adrenaline from that, and as soon as you feel your body's strength, you realize that all of that other crap is just that - crap. It's a superficial type of feeling good, proliferated as the norm by media and advertising and the big business of beauty, not a deep down into your viscera feeling good.
Please tell me chicks don't wear heels on their bikes and thats just made up?!? I'm all for looking however you want to look on your bike but heels is a bit too much. thats one step too far for me. i'll stick to t shirts shorts and knee high socks!
Tangentially related, more on the woman as indicator species for bike infrastructure (sort of like Joshua Trees and the California desert, go women!!):
It's not made up, for women who work in offices and have to wear professional attire it's a necessity. (see link abouve)
Same for the female attorney who rides in skirt suits to her job sun, snow or rain. http://letsgorideabike.com/
I will say that I'm a bit taken aback by some of the negativity towards any woman who opts to ride her bike over driving a car, I don't care if you wear spandex, heels or a spacesuit!
I just think it's fantastic that the "type" of woman (girly girl? professional 'suit and heels' type?) are opting for cycling over driving - as a woman I support that.
Girl Power responding to a comment by SugarHooker
06.3.10 - 11:47 am
"Same for the female attorney who rides in skirt suits to her job sun, snow or rain."
I would just like to point out that I am a woman attorney at a large law firm, and I ride to work in Dickies capris (my bike-riding uniform, I own like 4 pairs of the exact same pants), vans and a t-shirt. I roll my business casual clothes up together tightly, because there's less chance for them to wrinkle that way, and pack them in my messenger bag.
Not that if a woman attorney I worked with rode to work in her suit I would have any problem with it - I just want people to know that it's not necessary, nor in LA would I say it's advisable, considering the longer distances most people have to ride.
What would REALLY be amazing is if the building in which my firm is located had a shower and a changing room. Now THAT would be more encouragement to ANYONE to ride than anything, I would think.
And again, my beef isn't necessarily that someone chooses to ride with heels. I've seen Annie (@meandmybluebike) ride in heels on the occassional MR ride, and I don't begrudge her that - she's one of the strongest riders I know regardless of gender. It's just...well, everything I've already said.
"It's not made up, for women who work in offices and have to wear professional attire it's a necessity."
I looked at the link, and I don't see anything that shows or argues why women that it's a necessity for women who work in offices.
And look at the head banner of the website. "Bringin' sexy back since 2006" - the implication of which is that chicks who ride bikes that don't dress feminine and don't use fashion magazines to guide their lives and inform their self-worth and don't buy into the wasteful and unsustainable cycle of overconsumption caused by the beauty and fashion industries are not sexy.
And that is precisely the mainstream bullshit beauty bias attitude that needs to go fuck itself right in the ear.
I think it's great that you commute by bike. And, yes, showers at jobs would be nice for people who want them.
I would not use them, I would not want to commute in 'special' cloths and then have to change after.
Like the lady at letsrideabike.com I've learned to pedal so as not to break a sweat when I have to. I also would not relish adding even more time to a morning commute by having to change cloths twice (one for bike riding and again for my job) and take a shower. I tend to shower in the evenings only. But that is just me.
I feel encouraged that there are women cycling in regular cloths, I'm not athletic and I never will be nor do I have any desire to "be a strong rider". I ride purely for pleasure and I realize that that means different things to different women and I respect that.
Girl Power responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
06.3.10 - 12:22 pm
I would just like to point out that I am a woman attorney at a large law firm, and I ride to work in Dickies capris (my bike-riding uniform, I own like 4 pairs of the exact same pants), vans and a t-shirt. I roll my business casual clothes up together tightly, because there's less chance for them to wrinkle that way, and pack them in my messenger bag.
+a billion
I hope this is me in a few years. Well, maybe not the "large law firm" part ;)
But I also think that a lot of how one dresses on a bike depends on the type of bike it is. I figure that if I live close enough to work with a flat enough route, I would ride to work in a suit but only on those European style bikes because they are set up for it. Notice the skirt guards on the rear wheel to keep your dress from getting caught in the spokes and the chainguard that prevents any and all grease from getting on your clothes, as well as protecting it from the weather. Also the the low bar so you don't flash your crotch when getting on in a skirt. The relaxed geometry that allows you to be comfortable while riding in clothes not meant for cycling. I mean that's just easier than changing every time I get to/leave work.
However, if it was more than 5 miles, with hills, I would ride a more aggressive bike, that makes the ride easier, but much less practical to wear a suit on. You get grease on your clothes, pants ride up (or down), skirts restrict movement, and it's just downright uncomfortable. In this case, I would do the same as Ms. Stephanie - wear comfy clothes to ride and bring clothes to change into, because wearing a suit in that type of situation just wouldn't be practical.
But I also wear spandex when I ride road and long sleeve jerseys when I'm in the dirt. I think it's about being practical. If what you are doing on your bike is practical, go for it. This means that "looking cool" and "riding bikes" are not always one in the same.
This light weight aluminum seven speed Breukelen by Batavus can take hills, I know from a test ride at The Flying Pigeon bike shop. It comes with a skirt gaurd even though it's not pictured.
Here is a great little blog about commuter bikes in case you're interested.
Ms Stephanie –
Funny that GirlPower brought this up bc I was thinking of asking how you felt about the change of clothes you gotta make when you get to work… IF you were in Europe (or in a different part of town and closer to work) and probably had one of the more comfortable bikes they roll around on, wouldn’t you prefer to ride in your attire vs wearing jeans/dickies then going to work and changing into work clothes? Especially when 4083843 other women are doing exactly that?
When I commute I wear swerve pants or tights when I get to work I wear jeans and a hoodie or t-shirt (no fancy pants!) but I still like making the change bc I am not comfortable riding in jeans and also I get pretty sweaty riding to work so a change of clothes make me feel a bit refreshed. We have showers here and I have the luxury of using them (at the gym which I don’t use hahah) but I am often running late and skip this step so change of clothes really helps.
I used to go to some 60’s club and dance. I wore heels + skirt/tight jeans whatever. It did NOT impede on my riding in any way. I was not riding 20 miles to get to the fucker and was not taking shitty roads. I wanted to dress the same way I would have if I were in a car or bus so if I can ride that way safely and comfortably, then why not? (this is a response to Sugar Hooker, not to you Ms Stephanie)
One of my favorite ladies -with whom I also live with- commutes to work around the same time as I do (our commute to work is about the same distance). She keeps her style when she gets on a bike and while it is not MY style I still fucking adore seeing her with her hair/make up done carrying different totes/purses while I have my nerd bag and thermals on. she does this EVERY DAY rain or shine and currently riding cross country helping build affordable housing (http://bikeandbuild.org) fucking bad ass chick who likes to get dolled up every now and again even if she is riding her bike everywhere (car free! yay). I keep her and Annie in mind when I see other women “dressed up” on rides and hope these chicks are not trying to get approval or attention of the men on the rides or on the street and truly do it because that is their style. Speaking of these men, if they like the fucking look over in Europe so much (how many threads have there been on this forum about checking these chicks out and how they look on bikes and hwy don’t LA women sport this look type of bullshit) why don’t they move to Europe and see how their Budweiser burping swaggling asses are received by those women
I don’t mind the sweat. There is no way in hell I would be interested in learning about pedaling without sweating but this is something that is important to Girl Power and gets her to ride then well, good for her.
To each their own – hopefully it is your own : )
I don’t think anyone is trying to put anyone else down or be negative towards certain women who dress up but it’s just something to consider when you do it, who are you really doing it for and why are you really doing it?
one thing I would like to point out is that men in those cities also “dress up” so I think it is more the city, the vibe and LESS aggressive riding they do. Roads are different, everyone commutes, it is BIKE FRIENDLY so whatever their style is they keep it and do it with comfort. Bringing that shit over here is not practical and it would definitely not work for me. I like to wear dresses in the summer when I ride a bike. it feels NICE to have a breeze and no sticky sweaty pants on but I don’t ride platform pedals so no way am I am going to try and stick god damn pointy toed shoes into my clips – I still wear tennis shoes with my dresses it may not “match” or whatever but I am doing this for myself and my comfort so the fuck do I care?
ok i need to drink some turkish coffee and wake up.
Kakihara responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
06.3.10 - 3:36 pm
It's taken me a while to add on to this discussion primarily because everyone else has basically said what's needed to be said. But Kakihara brings up a good point:
I would like to point out is that men in those cities also “dress up” so I think it is more the city I think this whole "fashion, sexy, blah blah blah" bullshit depends on the mentality of that community. I agree with you Ms. Stephanie that these mainstream beauty standards are fucked up and skewed. Larsenf said it best on the naked bike ride thread:
current social norms have created this terribly shallow culture that worships a fake unhealthy beauty
" I think it's beautiful that the females in our community (for the most part) dont subscribe to them. In our community everyone's personality and sense of style comes through whether its what they're wearing or what they're riding. Ive seen a good amount of female ridazz and none of them are the same.
In addition to what Shotgun was sayin, the type of bike also (personally) reflects my wardrobe choices. For the most part I can give a shit about what I look like when I go out if I'm gonna be driving my car. But if I'm gonna be on a bike for the next 4 hours, I'm gonna wear the most practical shit for the weather and depending on which bike I'm using. I look at the blogs that GirlPower suggested and I cant help but wonder what type of cycling these girls are doing. How long do they stay on their bikes? What's the distance and the terrain that they are covering? Cuz I'll tell ya what. I can cycle in anything, but if my ass is gonna be on my saddle for the next 70 miles through hills and in the sun, I'm not gonna fucking wear heals or a cute little tote.
I dont care HOW fashionable any woman is, I think first and foremost we ALL as cyclist think about practicality.
"As a professional woman, I know it absolutely to exist - I've watched my male colleagues interview and hire thin cute assistants and congratulate each other on the stock of hotness in their departments."
-- so are we to assume that because she was thin and cute that she was not otherwise qualified to be hired? you mention nothing about the merit of her hire. by expecting that we assume that because she was thin and cute she was also incapable, aren't you effectively "buying into bullshit standards"?
"Just because consumer preferences reflect and reinforce an obsession with female appearance - and just because women buy into the beauty industry and spend a global investment of something upward of $200 billion a year - doesn't mean that in and of itself that obsession is okay."
-- you're absolutely right. in and of itself, it's not okay. standards exist in every facet of society. you're expected to drink in college, you're expected to wear suits to a corporate office, and each niche of society in each culture is bound to have established certain standards. and companies capitalize on the opportunity to perpetuate whatever standards we as a society establish, which fluctuate anyway. in my opinion, this is a fact of life and standards will continue to exist, and we should learn to rise above them, not continue to lament them.
just because these standards exist, why should they speak for our complete identities? it's not like we're one dimensional, so we shouldn't allow the way we dress of all things to let us define us completely. but by allowing ourselves and expecting other females to feel victimized and/or applying assumptions about how they're limiting themselves by dressing according to some standard, we are effectively enabling those standards to control us.
so what if it were the 90s (or some other space and time) and the standard trendy dress was loose fitting jeans and t shirts -- and what if models were curvier and healthier-looking, or something that would effectively be consistent with what females in the MR community purport to be their own individual styles, free of the influence of standards? would conforming to this standard of beauty be okay? would this make a female any more qualified to ride a bike, and would photographers have less of a reason to host pictures of these females on a blog? and would we cheer for pictures of women who were thin, made up, in heels and short skirts because they were non-conformists and therefore had their own senses of identities?
so some women wear jeans and vans and some women prefer to wear heels? who gives a fuck? don't judge a female (or anyone else) soley on their manner of dress. you're being just as superficial as the media wants you to be. and you're effectively encouraging women (and whomever else) to limit themselves and others based on a single dimension of a first impression?
like, it'd be easy for anyone to look at the MR community and say -- wow, they're all dressed the same way (ie same standard of dress) -- like drugged out stoner bums/starving artists who really don't do anything but smoke weed, fucking hipster idiots who love PBR and urban outfitters...grow up and get a fucking job -- but that wouldn't be fair, would it? because each of us is more than that, right?
azn invazn responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
06.4.10 - 12:34 pm
I just found this thread and first of all I'd just like to say that this is the first time I've ever seen a thread on this topic in a MR forum that didn't get totally destroyed by people posting half naked pics of girls on bikes, so just want to say way to go everyone! :)
I think it's important to mention that the issue is not just whether women should conform to society's beauty standards when they ride around/pose for a pic in a bike magazine or blog, or whether magazines and blogs should post more pictures of women of all shapes and sizes wearing a variety of fashions. All of these things end up objectifying the women or the "type" of women (or men) in one way or another - whether they're being objectified in a "standard" way or in an "alternative" way is more of a secondary issue.
I agree with what a few people said before: that women and men should wear they feel comfortable wearing. This means different things to different people. If someone feels comfortable wearing their business clothes when they ride their bike to work, great (the fact that we have to wear certain -often very uncomfortable- clothes to be taken seriously in the business world is an issue for another time). If someone feels most comfortable getting "dressed up" when they ride their bike, great (and truthfully we are all products of our society to some degree- we can work on unlearning but who are we to judge?).
Personally my commute to work is pretty gnarly over a very steep hill. Not only would wearing my work clothes be really uncomfortable, but I wouldn't want to be all sweaty all day at work. I usually wear bike shorts and a t-shirt and my clipless bike shoes for the ride and bring my work clothes with me. I'm fortunate enough to be able to shower at the gym at work and keep shoes and stuff in a locker. When I used to live in norcal my commute was one mile flat, so then I used to bike wearing my work clothes. You can't always choose where your commute is going to be, and for me (and I think a lot of people) how I look on my bike is usually a reflection of how long/hard my ride is going to be.
Ayla responding to a comment by azn invazn
06.7.10 - 4:27 pm
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Ridazz Roulette!
That's right...women only post to this thread. Kinda like girl's Catholic High School. Guys sit down and shut up.
idk..I think I look pretty hot. fuck your standards!
"Please tell me chicks don't wear heels on their bikes and thats just made up?!?"
I would just like to point out that I am a woman attorney at a large law firm, and I ride to work in Dickies capris (my bike-riding uniform, I own like 4 pairs of the exact same pants), vans and a t-shirt. I roll my business casual clothes up together tightly, because there's less chance for them to wrinkle that way, and pack them in my messenger bag.
This light weight aluminum seven speed Breukelen by Batavus can take hills, I know from a test ride at The Flying Pigeon bike shop. It comes with a skirt gaurd even though it's not pictured.
wah