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Now that the weather is getting nice, all the helmet-less morons are out riding bikes on the sidewalks again. It's dangerous/annoying for pedestrians and it's counter-productive to those of us that are trying to retain our rights to the road. It's probably one of the main reasons many motorists still think we don't belong on the road. Fine, no big revelation there; I'm sure most of you all agree. But is it too dickish to shout out "get off the sidewalk" to them? Being a crank doesn't come too naturally to me, but I've been thinking about starting to do that. Most of them just don't know better.
If there were adequate bike lanes, people would not need to bike on the sidewalk. Unfortunately some streets are too narrow and traffic too dangerous. Weekend bicyclists are going to take to the sidewalk....besides I thought no one walked in LA?
I think it's just shocking to see SO MANY bicyclists on sidewalks in LA, but u know what... even for someone experienced like me... I sometimes take refuge to the sidewalk if I feel the road is getting hectic.. and yea, buses are sometimes difficult to deal with.
i don't know about you all, but I can dodge pedestrians alot better then a car can dodge me(funny story about crossing downtown duce nine when all the schools let out). Of course if the conditions allow, I will always ride road, but it doesn't always pan out that way and I'd rather seem like a dick or get a ticket then become a grease spot on the road.
It takes some nerve on your part, but to be safe when there is no shoulder space on the street, you HAVE to take the lane.
Ride just right of the lane's left side paint.
Give no driver space to pass you without going into the next lane to the left.
And use a mirror to monitor the situation behind you.
Whenever I don't do this, I get buzzed by peabrains in big SUVs or trucks or bus drivers.
Taking the lane is much safer than riding on the sidewalk.
Conversely it always amuses me when an angry driver tells me to "GET ON THE SIDEWALK." Like, really? In Hollywood? Sidewalks are congested with tourists who are too busy gawking at everything to even walk properly.
Funnier yet is that this almost always happens to me up Highland during rush hour, when I'm actually moving faster than the cars. Like hey, it's not my fault I'm having more fun!
In WeHo, however, you get the shirtless helmetless SHOELESS meatheads on cruisers riding on the sidewalks while ON THEIR CELL PHONES...it makes me wanna cryyy.
Downtown is the easiest place to ride. I usually just take a lane and direct traffic with arm directions...it seems the average driver gets more upset with an indecisive cyclist than one that just takes over a lane.(they'll just go around)
Rush hour is easier because no one moves. Just shoot the gaps to get to the front at a red then cross over to the right and do it again at the next light.
I've never been honked at in 8 months of DTLA everyday commuting. People in cars are get confused or flustered when they see someone in the middle of the lane so I just make sure they know they need to go around. or I'll dip to the right if the shoulder permits.
When I first started I was on the side walk over 50 percent of the time...I also never lived in a city or rode my bike anywhere. It just naturally evolved after a month of dodging people constantly. I can't imagine being on sidewalk really ever at this point.
The trick is to constantly check behind you so you can plan the next move for the upcoming vehicle.
ive been commuting in DTLA for a few months now.
it is scary much.
let me just say i hate buses and the way they drive.
i use the street, and take a lane when i need to.
but yeah, i can see someone without so much confidence get intimated by the buses and cars wizzing 1 ft to 6 inches of them resort to the sidewalk when they don't feel safe.
now biking against traffic in a one way street- that is annoying.
Yes! It is really annoying. And I've tried to take a lane before, that's why i say it's risky, because it seems every street has buses and they're so large they practically squeeze you out to the next lane. I dont exactly feel too safe there. I guess you have to be really good or careful. I need to work on that.
I don't have the DTLA perspective. I could see how if the traffic is much worse it could be very tempting to get on sidewalks (although, no matter what, I will not). But over here on the west side, I see bikers now all the time on sidewalks, next to streets with mellow traffic, wide shoulders and some EVEN with bike lanes like Venice and Ocean Park. It's infuriating.
the best thing you can do is be confident.
The last thing a bus driver wants is to actually hit someone, yes even the assholes. They're just pissy just because they are.
They will try their damndest to intimidate you, but remember, no one wants to intentionally hurt you.
Take the lane, do it with confidence, and HOLD YOUR LINE, if you do this you'd be surprised how much easier it is.
Remember, you have infinitely more maneuverability than they do.
To use a bentstrider-esque analogy, pretend you're a cowboy (or cowgirl) herding cattle (traffic), you have to move inside the herd, but in the end you're in control (and legally you are, right of way laws actually give cyclists a lot more power on the road than they realize, over everything larger in essence).
Watch the vehicles around you, recognize the warning signs of their movements (wheels in cars usually turn before the actual car follows, particularly in slow speed situations), and react accordingly. That is the essence of riding defensively.
As to splitting lanes, if you're shoulders will fit between the cars, unless you're on a wide as beach cruiser, the rest of your bike will too.
Take the lane and do it with confidence. It would be easier than being intimidated and off to the side thinking they're going to give you the room you need. Try to find roads that have two or more lanes on each side too. Drivers won't be so pissy if there's other lanes to take. Spliting lanes should be done as little as possible.
Hesperia Road's a bitch up here due to the assholes I've been encountering lately.
Speed limit of 55 and they still have the nerve to want to fuck with you anyway.
I'm still waiting for the day one of my paintballs hits their windshield and they take a shit right after.
i frequently take the lane on a street where cars travel 50mph+ because it's way safer than having them zoom past me. i've yet to encounter an asshole there. sometimes suv drivers cheer, haha.
quite honestly downtown is pretty easy traffic to ride through once you gets used to riding in traffic more. do what everyone here suggested. take the lane, always know your surroundings, and assume what cars are going to do by their behavior.
it's not so much people are going to ram you from behind.
it's more like even though you take the lane, the car behind you passes you, but doesn't completely change lanes and drives down the middle of the street inches from you, while prematurely passing you.
conquer your fears, but never "get used to riding in traffic". you must always stay alert.
Unless its posted or a specific law is passed in a fucked up city like Santa Monica, its legal to ride on the sidewalk.
When I was riding my little folding bike. I often took the sidewalk as my cruising speed was about 6-10 miles per hour.
When one rides the sidewalk, it is of ut most importance to treat pedestrians with the utmost respect and consideration.
Use a signaling device to politely alert people of your presence and be VERY cautious of driveways and intersections.
I prefer to ride in the street about 95% of the time. Occasionally I'll climb on the sidewalk for a short period of time for one reason or another, but obviously one can cover much more ground, much more safely riding in the street.
I don't look down on sidewalk ridazz. As long as they are safe and respect peds. For some people its a baby step to properly getting on the road.
Riding on the sidewalk is several more times more dangerous than riding in the street. (William Moritz, 1998) Another study says it's twice as dangerous. (Bicycling Life, 1985-89)
found here:
http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/almanac-safety.html
yea, when I started riding more frequently, I would ride on the sidewalk about 1/2 of the time.
I would get more flats
More close encounters with vehicles, coming out of driveways or making a left into a street. (That is; coming southbound)
& More near collisions with peds.
& of course you slow down when you have to jump up or down the sidewalk.
Ended up getting fed up with it, cause I wasn't enjoying myself while riding.
On the Street,
Cars are able to see you and where you signal to.
You can keep a consistent speed
You can avoid potholes, loose gravel, glass, etc
& of course you're safer ^___^
I'll definitely agree with that- it's been about a year since I started riding regularly. Before I met you guys, I only rode on the sidewalk/bike path, but I also only put in about 30 miles a week. Now I'll easily put in 200+ miles a week.
I put in maybe 500 miles on sidewalks before I switched to street riding.
I've now put in 7,000+ miles of street riding.
I got hit by a car once while riding on the sidewalk, and twice riding on the street (twice in a 24 hour period, I might add).
So- one incident with a car per 500 mi on the sidewalk to one incident with a car per 3500 mi on the streets. I put in 7 times as many miles on the streets for the same number of car/bike collisions.
Can anyone else calculate their riding like this? I'd like to see some more first hand analysis.
It's 15 mi there and back to school, and 15 mi there and back to NoHo station, where most of the rides start, or I catch the train over the hill. Then add in 20 mi for the riding done on the actual ride, and it's 50 miles for that day. I try to ride 6 nights a week, although I'll often end up skipping one or two nights, and I don't actually do extra riding on polo days.
Yes i do ride the street all the way for the most part, sometimes i hit sidewalks briefly only to get around a stopped bus or if some asshole is riding in the gutter and i cant squeeze though. ANd its so funny when people talk shit in traffic and u smoke them on your bicycle.
madmelo responding to a comment by digablesoul
07.21.09 - 12:30 am
You just cant let cars force you to the side, or try and squeeze by you. Youve gotta be kind of a dick and force yourself the lane, using clear hand jestures and hold it unless you honestly think the guy behind you isnt going to stop to be spiteful, or just plain doesnt see you. On last crank mob when we pulled onto ocean nobody would take the lane and it turned into a giant clusterfuck line of bikes trying to inhabit the bike lane with me looking like a big jackass holding up cars by myself and getting honked at.
I make the mistake of not taking the lane in the second street tunnel last week and was buzzed by cars with about 6 in to spare. Taking the lane is safer than being decoration on a tile wall.
Foldie responding to a comment by angrytoaster30
07.21.09 - 8:41 am
it is "too dickish" to shout get off the sidewalk.
If it is not posted or specially outlawed it is legal in the state of california to ride a bike on the sidewalk.
Seriously.
Mind your own business.
Set an example that riding in the street is safe and functional.
Many people, especially those on smaller and slower bikes, prefer to ride on the sidewalk.
Its not the safest place to be and there are many things one has to be conscious of. But it if makes somebody feel more comfortable, let them have it.
The "my way is the right way" attitude does nothing to get more people on the road.
And if you are worried about what "cars think" when they see somebody on the road.
GET OVER IT. Blaming sidewalk ridazz for the attitudes of drivers is just as dumb as that douchebag who wants to blame all of Midnight Ridazz cause he got hassled by a cholo.
Drivers need to learn that while bikes have a right to ride on most sidewalks at slow speeds AND that bikes have a right and a responsibility to ride on every road, especially if they are traveling over 5 miles an hour.
When I started on a little slow as foldy, with an average speed of about 7mph I was on the sidewalk about 30 or 40% of the time.
Now I use the road about 99% of the time.
I go on sidewalks as a need to and want to. I'm glad I have that right.
A friend of mine in oakland got bullied off the road by a big truck and went up on the sidewalk to escape, then got a ticket from the cops.
In an ideal world. EVERYBODY would feel safe on the road. But Our infrastructure just isn't there yet. For many people, getting around slowly on the sidewalk 50+% of the time is an entre into road cycling. Teach by example instead of preaching.
If you are on the road mind your own business. If a sidewalk ridaa wants learn how to mash through traffic they will.
If you are walking on the sidewalk and somebody is riding recklessly: call that mutherfucker out. Otherwise, mind your own damn business until the day that a sidewalk ridaa sees how happy you are and asks you ... "is it hard to ride in the street?"
I have been riding my bike in the streets of LA for a very long time now, and to be honest I do not feel comfortable riding much on the street with all those crazy motorists. Specially between 3 and 6 pm. I have had so many bad experiences that after a while I just went fuck it and started riding more on the sidewalk.
If you ever see me on the sidewalk and you wanna waste your breath yelling at me to get off the sidewalk, go ahead, but if I ever see YOU on the sidewalk dont expect me to keep quiet. :)
I came across one today and the ass was playing chicken with me. I looked over my shoulder and moved left but then he moved to his right. Maybe next time I should move to my right and force him into oncoming traffic.
Gav responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
07.21.09 - 5:26 pm
A bunch of people noted the "confidence factor"...if you act like you know what you're doing and that you're supposed to be there, they back off. It's kind of like merging on the freeway when you're in a car, if you hesitate, you're fucked. If you put on your blinker and take the (somewhat small) open space, then people let you in.
I'm only riding about 50 miles a week in the Pasadena/Alhambra area....rarely honked at or yelled at...take the lane all the time. Might be different in other parts of town and for people who are on the road more than me, thus having more opportunities to encounter jackasses....
if you can keep with the pace of traffic, then you belong in the street, if you can't, then you belong on the sidewalk.
I've seen every classic incarnation of the bicycle on both the road and the sidewalk, and it really has to do with the pace the person is comfortable with. At a certain speed, it is safer and more efficient to be on the road, like 10 mph or so and up should be safe for most residential streets, and 13 to 18 for crowded city streets, faster for anywhere else.
Riding a fixed gear bicycle offers an interesting problem to new riders, as the gear ratio and rider ability determine how fast the rider is capable of going. New fixed gear cyclists usually cannot keep their cadence up for long periods of time, or simply cannot apply enough pressure on the pedals to go fast enough to keep the pace of traffic, especially for long periods of time.
From my perspective, the sidewalk is an element that cyclists should be allowed to employ in certain situations, based upon their determination of what is safe and/or enjoyable at the moment.
I agree with the idea that if you're a beginning rider...or aren't fast enough, you should ride the sidewalk at a snail pace, maybe 10mph or less. But if you can hold at least 15mph, you belong on the street. I guess that leaves that funky in-between speed. Whatever, I don't have all the answers.
You have to hold your own when you ride with traffic, and splitting cars is okay, as long as you're VERY comfortable on your bike, know it like the back of your hand, and are aware that if you fall off while doing so, you're royally fucked. Don't NOT ride in the street because of the fear of encountering assholes. It's bound to happen because you're on a bike in the first place.
Don't be intimidated by the size of the vehicle. Whether it be a car, truck, or Rapid Bus, you just make sure the person operating it sees your ass. I routinely ride with the same Rapid 7 either on my ass, on my side, or right in front of me, all the way up Pico, from La Brea to SMC. I get pretty close, but it's cool because the driver knows I'm there, and I know he or she knows I'm there, because we'd be gesturing to each other the entire way. Be a beast!!!
I've been in four significant bicycling accidents in the last ten years. In three of them, I was riding on the sidewalk. Two of which sent me to the hospital. In one of those incidents, I was bombing down a hill and a car pulled out of a gas station. In the other one, it was dark and I hit an overgrown tree that sliced up my hand. In BOTH situations, the accident would have been avoided by riding in the street, and the number of bicycling incidents that would have involved a hospital visit would be zero.
The only time I'll ever ride on the sidewalk now is if I'm ending my ride, or starting it. Incidentally, in San Francisco, cops will look the other way if you blow a stop sign, but you'll get a ticket for riding on the sidewalk. Totally the opposite of LA.
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Ridazz Roulette!
It takes some nerve on your part, but to be safe when there is no shoulder space on the street, you HAVE to take the lane.
How about people who ride on the right side of the street but in the wrong direction? WTF!