Thread started by Oren Hadar at 11.11.06 - 5:07 pm

I was driving down Griffith Park Blvd. last night and approached the light at Sunset, which was green in my direction. A big group of cyclists, which I'm guessing was the Midnight Ridazz, came down Sunset and blew right through the red light. The whole group took about three light cycles to pass through, and I waited until everyone passed. Why don't you guys stop at traffic lights like everyone else?

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If you rode a bike in traffic for any length of time, you would understand.



dave
11.11.06 - 5:12 pm

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I think that you have a very valid question. I also think that it is very hard to explain, and experience is the best teacher.

Riding a bike in Los Angeles, while rewarding, can be very scary and demanding. The bottom line short version is this...safety in numbers.

In a car you are protected by fiber gass, steel, and glass. On a bike, you are completely vulnerable. At any time and any minute something could knock you from your bike and send you rushing toward the treacherous pavement. Within the mass, there is not only the physical aspect of safety, but also a psychological one.

A cyclists biggest challenge is being noticed. So many drivers and pedestrians even, don't see us and can therefore be the catalyst of a collison. It's hard to miss a thousand people hooping and hollering.

It's also a lot more fun.

I really appreciate you taking the time to post this thread and your curiosity and openmindedness. There is just to much closemindedness with drivers and cyclists alike.



anonymitytheif
11.11.06 - 6:29 pm

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My opinion:

Trying to convince 1,500 Ridazz to follow all rules is asking a lot.

As long as every rider is mindfull of their own decisions then we should be in good shape.



Joe Borfo
11.11.06 - 7:38 pm

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Stopping at every red ruins the whole vibe of Midnight Ridazz. By stopping at the reds the ride splits into several different pacts. Then it is 5 people trying to catch up to the main pact that is wayyy up there.



nicklovesyou
11.11.06 - 8:12 pm

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5 people trying to catch up to the group of 5 people ahead of them trying to catch up to the group of 5.... and so on.

Also blocking a light and allowing everyone to go through makes it safer for cyclists and drivers in that it limits the amount of cars that caught in the midst of the ride. It may be better to ask drivers to wait a couple minutes and have us be completely out of their hair than to stream around them in the street.



monovsstereo
11.11.06 - 8:18 pm

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Most likely Mr. Hadar has left this thread. But, I think, gnerally speaking, that most bicyclists, riding by themselves or even with a couple of other riders, normally do stop at red lights and obey most of the laws written to control automobile traffic.

A large group ride such as we had last night with upwards of 1500 people is another story. I've been on a few large city sponsored rides where the LAPD did the corking and we rolled through every intersection we came across.

It may inconvenience a few people in cars for a while but the alternative is holding back 1500 people who stretch back several city blocks who also are most likely blocking the particular intersection they are in front of. I think its better to just let the group get through rather than prolong the agony for the motorists. Of course there's always an ebb and flow which should be taken advantage of to let a few cars through when possible, but in general, inconveniencing a few people for a relatively short time is better than inconveniencing a lot of people for a long time.



dave
11.11.06 - 10:58 pm

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we are struggling with this problem ourselves. basically there are two camps of thought. those that want to split up the mass and obey all traffic laws and those that want to cork or block intersections so thatr the mass can continue as one entire unit.

unfortunately both scenarios cause traffic strife.

Obey All Laws Method
the "legal" way means that we attempt to obey all traffic lights and traffic laws. this method naturally splits the ride up into groupings of approximately 25-75 cyclists at each light interval. basically about a half a block's worth of cyclists in one entire lane. being that there are over a 1000 cyclists riding, this means that the mass spreads over anywhere from 10 to 30 city blocks. As you can imagine, this fully legal method of riding causes traffic slow downs and congestions on the street of our route. there is little effect to the streets that cross our route path.

Corking traffic method
The corking method is used in an attempt to get the complete mass moving through the route as quickly and cohesively as possible. This method means corking all perpendicular routes to the street that we ride on until the mass is completely through. This causes traffic congestion at every major intersection and especially to perpendicular streets that cross the route street. It also causes congestion to those who wish to turn left and would be faced with crossing the route path during the passage of the mass. This method usually contains the mass to about 7-15 cityblocks.

There are strong reasons for both methods. We've rode rides each using both methods and even some rides employing a hybrid of these methods. So far there is no conclusion as to what works best. On one occasion, the LAPD apparently decided that riding in one mass reduces traffic overall on the route street and actually escorted us through intersections by corking for us. This turned out to be one of the smoothest most cohesive rides we've had. They have yet to offer that courtesy on any of our other rides. But we did in fact generally benefit from it and most appreciated the help.

The real complication is that there is really no central command so to speak. Someone, anyone, names a route and 1000+ individual street legal vehicles decide to ride this route at approximately the same time on the same day. So unfortunately there is no firm method of influencing these individuals to all completely obey any one method completely...








Roadblock
11.12.06 - 8:52 pm

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The main reason I don't like not corking is that you end up with cars inside groups of cyclists heading the same direction.



monovsstereo
11.12.06 - 10:41 pm

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