Why Sidewalk???
Thread started by
jeshii at 08.25.11 - 1:40 pm
I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but what is with all the people on the sidewalk? Every single time I ride to/from work, I see at least 10 times more people on the sidewalk than in the road. Is this just a Valley thing? I loathe the sidewalk, but I also loathe drivers getting on my ass and honking when I'm taking the lane on a road with fucking 3 lanes each direction plus a left turn lane. If even half the people riding on the sidewalk were in that right lane with me, we'd have a movement.
Seriously. And don't get me started on the people who ride AGAINST traffic. Fuck.
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REPOST!
J/K
I wrote verbatim the same thing several years ago and got into an internet argument with Sexy over the necessity for people to ride the sidewalks.
The riding against traffic thing makes my blood boil, but I've come to the point to feel that it's fucking pointless to try to ask for that to change.
Things are going to get worse before they get better. That's my new outlook. Sad?
gado_gado08.25.11 - 2:00 pm
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I think it just has to do with the type of riding you are doing at the time. Some people are just cruising around their neighborhood for fun. These kinds of people don't really see the point in going fast or getting a nice work out in. They are just in it for the ride and would prefer not to even sweat.
Then there is the other type of rider who is doing it because they enjoy the speed and the feeling after getting a nice workout. Also they have goals of getting faster and better on the bike. These people don't see the point in cruising on the sidewalk just wasting your time and not even breaking a sweat.
Personally, I do both types or riding. When I am on a training ride or group ride, of course I ride on the street. It would be silly to ride so fast on the sidewalk not to mention dangerous. On the other hand, if I am just chilling and decide to ride to the store or to get some food. I will just cruise on the sidewalk. What's the hurry, right?
Weedwax08.25.11 - 3:15 pm
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I like riding on the sidewalk when I'm on my BMX or the street is just to knarly
with traffic.
Dedicated81808.25.11 - 3:16 pm
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Oops. But I'm glad it's not just me!
I guess it depends on perspective. I see people riding on the sidewalk as a wasted chance to reclaim the streets... but I guess the fact I'm seeing people on bikes at all is a good sign, right?
I can't imagine traffic getting worse. If it does, I probably I won't be around much longer to worry about it.
Also, I still ride on the street, even if I'm just running to the store. Maybe I'm a trained zombie. I have trouble driving these days. Like, I get all fatigued cause of my limited view or something.
jeshii responding to a
comment by gado_gado
08.25.11 - 3:44 pm
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i recommend making fliers on safe driving and bicycles and hand them out to people in areas where you find the most populated and to traffic where you have the most trouble possibly to cars when they are at stop lights. bring a sign with you showing your message.
PP08.25.11 - 4:58 pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kHHZkUiRP30
PP08.25.11 - 5:01 pm
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On the other hand, if I am just chilling and decide to ride to the store or to get some food. I will just cruise on the sidewalk. What's the hurry, right?
Who says you have to hurry to be on the street?
PC responding to a
comment by Weedwax
08.25.11 - 5:03 pm
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Well I don't know about you but I rarely see any beach cruisers or bmx bikes on the street...
Weedwax08.25.11 - 8:11 pm
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Not a valley thing because I moved over the hill to Hollywood and its like the WIild West walking around on the sidewalk. People booking it down the sidewalk.. young, old, you name it.. every day and at night. I have almost gotten hit a couple of times walking to the store and I have almost lost my cool and told them to hit the streets.
OsnapsonJC08.25.11 - 9:03 pm
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Well I don't know about you but I rarely see any beach cruisers or bmx bikes on the street...
But that's not what I asked. Why do you associate riding at a more "chill" pace with riding on the sidewalk?
PC responding to a
comment by Weedwax
08.25.11 - 10:25 pm
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I was thinking the same thing.
Again, sometimes coming home late at night I take the sidewalk for numerous reasons, some of which include that part of the road being shitty, or having experience with drunk drivers along a certain stretch of road (any street near a club or bar is one I try to stay away from), etc. At night it isn't so bad because you don't have to worry about cars pulling in and out of driveways or pedestrians. Chances of you being hit by a drunk driver or just one who's not paying attention are a lot less than the other option.
July responding to a
comment by gado_gado
08.25.11 - 11:01 pm
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*than if you'd been riding on the road.
July08.25.11 - 11:15 pm
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July knows what's up.
Not going to fall for PC's troll bait.
Weedwax08.26.11 - 12:28 am
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It's because people learned to ride their bikes when they were kids, and have recently been inspired to pick it up again. Because "you never forget how to ride a bike" they believe that they can ride on the sidewalk like they used to on their Stingray at 10 years old. I only sidewalk it on my bmx for short trips. Bikes belong in the street!
Velocipede08.26.11 - 8:03 pm
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When I was a kid I always rode my bmx style bike in the streets like other vehicles do because my dad told me that was how to ride a bike properly. Thanks, dad!
gado_gado responding to a
comment by Velocipede
08.26.11 - 8:46 pm
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I tend to take the streets. I am tall, so I am not that concerned with other drivers. And always been concerned with getting a chickenesque ticket for riding on the sidewalks (i.e. West Hollywood, Burbank) anyways. I particularly believe that sidewalks "are made for walking". "And that just what I'll do..."
I would not like to see anything happen to any pedestrian, or cyclist for that matter. The sidewalk should be used as a last resort, or like a delicious candy treat - enjoyed once and a while. ;)
junglistic108.27.11 - 12:32 am
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I'd have to say the same. I'm glad I learned to ride in the street from an early age. Especially how to look around and not get hit. Also to respect traffic.
Velocipede responding to a
comment by gado_gado
08.27.11 - 11:10 am
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Chances of you being hit by a drunk driver or just one who's not paying attention are a lot less than the other option.
...unless that drunk (or sober) driver is coming out of an alley or parking structure, in which case the chances of being hit are much higher.
PC responding to a
comment by July
08.28.11 - 12:21 pm
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" 'Chances of you being hit by a drunk driver or just one who's not paying attention are a lot less than the other option.'
...unless that drunk (or sober) driver is coming out of an alley or parking structure, in which case the chances of being hit are much higher."
Now you are being little silly. For somebody who has such an attachment to rationality and facts, frankly I'm a little bit surprised.
There is absolutely nothing to back up your statement.
Furthermore, all collisions are not created equal. getting slammed from a Drunk driver at street speeds is rarely as dangerous as having a collision with a slow moving vehicle that is entering the street via a driveway.
The only deadly sidewalk/bike incidents that spring to mind from the last few years
happened in crosswalks.
I had a couple of ugly sidewalk crashes as a kid. They both stemmed from riding too fast. They were both my fault.
I personally don't think riding in the street is "safer" over all.
But at the
speed I choose to ride the street is most often the clear choice for me.
When I occasionally choose to take to the sidewalk, Its because I am choosing to ride slowly. I defer to pedestrians and I keep a close eye on those places where cars interact with the walkway (driveways & intersections).
The right place for most ridazz is the street.
The speed & distance most people want to travel, the street is the safest choice for them and for other users of the sidewalk.
However, many people are rightly intimidated by reckless and ignorant drivers and choose to take to the sidewalk because they feel safer there. The sidewalk can be safer for those who do it correctly, (ie ride ssslooooooowly) but that comes with a great many limitations as well.
The way to enlighten people about the advantages of riding in the street, and how to mitigate those risks, is not to condescend or look down on them.
(im no longer talking directly to you PC) But rather to ride by example and demonstrate how safe and effective road riding can be.
Thats what Midnight Ridazz did for me. It showed me that i had a rightful place on the road and how much more effective riding a bike could be if I chose to take it.
However that doesn't stop me from using the sidewalk from time to time (within my rights) to make riding more convenient, or to allow me to amble along slowly for a few blocks when I feel the need.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by PC
08.28.11 - 3:27 pm
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SIDE WALK
SIDE WALK
SIDE WALK
SIDE WALK
SIDE WALK
SIDE WALK
SIDE
RIDE
battlescars08.29.11 - 12:52 am
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If I'm on Wilshire I'm rolling on the Sidewalk.
Ninja biker08.29.11 - 1:49 am
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I ride on the sidewalk regularly.
markd08.29.11 - 9:53 am
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Thank you for that post trickmilla.
Weedwax08.29.11 - 3:52 pm
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I concur. +1, trickmilla.
But, I have to add that riding against traffic in the wrong direction is just stupid and I wish it would change. It only seems to be increasing in numbers of riders.
If Alex Thompson were here, he'd be arguing against this until we were blue in the face.
BUT SO FAR I IS THE DOMINATORZZ!!!!
gado_gado responding to a
comment by Weedwax
08.29.11 - 4:11 pm
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Sidewalk all day everyday!
Glue:.08.29.11 - 6:41 pm
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"There is absolutely nothing to back up your statement [that riding on the sidewalk increases your chances of being hit]."
This is not really true. Studies of cycling risk factors consistently find higher accident rates for sidewalk riding than for street riding - like
this one based on accident statistics, which finds that sidewalk riding is 1.8 to 5.7 times more likely to result in a collision or
this one based on a survey of regular cyclists, which finds that on a per-mile basis, sidewalk riding is 16 times as dangerous. On the other hand, you have
this study based on phone surveys and emergency room interviews, which finds that riding on the sidewalk is 1.7 times safer than riding on the street for children but does not significantly the accident risk either way for adults. I think this last study might be a little dodgy though, since it looks like the accident interviews came from a different population than the non-accident interviews.
You can say that the safety of sidewalk riding is debatable, but you can't really say that there's "absolutely nothing" to the argument that it can be more dangerous.
nathansnider responding to a
comment by trickmilla
08.29.11 - 9:48 pm
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This is the quote that i declared "silly" and unbackupable.
"...unless that drunk (or sober) driver is coming out of an alley or parking structure, in which case the chances of being hit are much higher."
I took a quick look at the studies you provided and I pretty sure none of them talk about sidewalk collisions with drunks in driveways / alleyways.
From a quick look those studies seem to suggest that people are much more likely to have a crash while riding on the sidewalk, but that only relatively small percentage of those crashes involve a car.
I totally get that the sidewalk can be very dangerous. Most especially for people who ride recklessly past driveways, alleys, and into intersections without looking.
However, I have never seen evidence that there is a greater chance of being HIT BY A CAR when riding on the sidewalk.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by nathansnider
08.30.11 - 2:43 am
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quote of the week
jeshii: "I loathe the sidewalk"
markd08.30.11 - 11:04 am
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I took a quick look at the studies you provided
That must have been one hell of a quick look. I suggest you actually read the stuff, particularly where it concerns blind driveway and roadway crossings, and the incontrovertible fact (it's simple geometry) that sidewalk cyclists are more hidden from emerging drivers by shrubbery and buildings than street cyclists are. Having done that, reacquaint yourself with the common sense that I know you possess, and see what it has to say to you about what drivers are looking for and expecting as they come out of a driveway or alley, and why a cyclist tootling down the sidewalk is likely to violate those expectations--to the detriment of the cyclist.
Extra credit if you and your common sense spend a few more minutes mulling over the nature of a sidewalk/driveway conflict between bike and car: perpendicular directions of travel, with neither party seeing the other until the last fraction of a second, and the cyclist (and sometimes the car, even though they shouldn't be) often traveling too fast to evade in time--unlike a pedestrian at normal walking speed.
PC responding to a
comment by trickmilla
08.30.11 - 5:10 pm
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SHUT
THE
FUG
AUP
111
can you beer me naow?
gado_gado responding to a
comment by markd
08.31.11 - 2:06 am
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sidewalk riding is ok if you're just putting along. I do it rarely and when there's practically no one around.
DArK ENERgY09.1.11 - 1:59 pm
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she yells --
"get on the sidewalk!"
i reply
"get in the kitchen!"
sickz09.1.11 - 3:36 pm
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the sidewalk should be for pedestrians, or for a cyclist who doesn't feel safe on a street for just as long as it takes to get to a safer street...and definitely go slow if you have to go on the sidewalk...and please try to go in the same direction as traffic...
Drivers are taught to look left as they come out of a driveway or go into an intersection...
I hit a cyclist yesterday that was going against traffic on a downhill grade, as I tried to make a right hand turn... I had come to a full stop at the red and was letting traffic go until I was clear to turn right. .... I looked left, there was no traffic and I accelerated and as I looked right - bam! I was careful and still never saw him coming! (there was a wall that blocked my view around the corner)... there was probably about 5 feet from the wall to the street...and a bike at any speed covers that quickly....
He was not hurt, and his bike was not damaged except for a little wiggle in his front tire...but I was shaken, and my car was scratched up from his bike hitting the front corner of my car.... he was probably going a little fast and I don't even know if he even saw me about to make the right turn, because he was going to go through the crosswalk that was still in "Walk"...
He was still in a hurry to get going on his way, even as I insisted that he take some time to make sure that all was well and okay with him and his bike...luckily he was fine.
I'd say I'm very cautious and aware when it comes to cyclists since I ride all the time, and still in this case, I hit someone...or did he hit me? It's debatable.
From this very personal experience, I'd repeat: Stay off the sidewalk if possible...if not go SLOW...and if you have to, by all means go with the flow of traffic
adrian responding to a
comment by trickmilla
09.21.11 - 4:03 pm
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I think we've come a long way in the past few years in terms of making motorists aware and respectful of cyclists and their rights. Unfortunately, the huge increase in people riding bikes has also translated into more people riding on the streets and against traffic.
I'd like to see a major education campaign to get cyclists on the streets (not the sidewalks) and riding in the right direction - I see it as something that will help all of us, whether we're on a bike, on foot or even driving a car.
mr rollers09.21.11 - 4:59 pm
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Edumacation, leadership by example, and a proper infrastructure to support riding on the street is all we need. And until we get that, get used to it. Until they teach everyone, EVERYONE, the rules of the road (like they do in parts of Europe) people won't know, or feel safe enough, to ride on the streets. It doesn't help that motorists have some BULLSHIT entitlement to the road, blah blah blah...
RIDE ON THE STREETS, TAKE THE WHOLE LANE.
It's your right.
the reverend dak09.21.11 - 6:16 pm
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is there any non-hostile way to point out to people they're idiots for riding on the wrong side of the road at night without lights? no, not really.
moonpie09.28.11 - 2:57 pm
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Funny you mention that, I was on a collision course with one of these guys, two nights ago on crescent heights. I said to him, 'Wrong side? And with no lights? Really??" He didn't make eye contact with me and peeled to the sidewalk to avoid me.
Seems that some of the people who ride like this (and I admit, I used to be one of them years ago, so I can't in good conscience call him an idiot) don't feel connected at all to the pedestrians, cars or other bicyclists around them, because the streets are too hostile for them. They end up riding in this seemingly defensive and nonsensical way.
This could very well change when we get some more paint on the ground for bike lanes. Then bicyclists might be more willing to stay on the road, and follow common sense regarding traffic flow.
Even the DOT and LAPD who are on their bikes, on the job, seem to exclusively ride the sidewalks around here. That seems weird to me. Or rather, it seems unfortunate. Would love to see more city jobs created that utilized bikes in a practical way.
PeterR responding to a
comment by moonpie
09.28.11 - 3:59 pm
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