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Thread Box:
ibikeu Wiki - a wiki for bikes!
Thread started by Alex Thompson at 04.13.08 - 11:46 pm

The ibikeu Wiki

Hey Ridazz,

Me, Paul Bringetto, some local cyclists like PC (awesome person), and the members of the Bike Writers Collective have been covertly working on a bike wiki. It's the ibikeu Wiki.

I hope this wiki will get used for everything bike. Tool description, ride histories, Rida profiles, history of mountain biking, the nature of LA bike funding, documenting how to make tall bikes - whatever is bike is fair game! Hopefully this will make it easier for noobs of all kinds ot get involved, old heads to get wiser, and everyone in between to get FUN FUN FUN.

It's open for public viewing now. It isn't open for public editing quite yet because we're not prepared for an influx of new editors. But, if you want to contribute to the wiki, all you need to do is email me at alexcthompson@gmail.com, briefly explain who you are and what you'd like to contribute (it doesn't have to be amazingly epic) and I'll likely approve you as an editor.

In the spirit of awesome we'll open this to public editing within 2 months. We'll also gradually create a democratic governing body and some innovative policies for the content disputes which are so bad on Wikipedia.

If you want to help with aspects other than content - for example promotion, or technical stuff, EMAIL ME. Don't hesitate - go directly to your email program and write me.

The ibikeu Wiki, a wiki for all things bike, goes public

reply


BTW - I want all of y'alls input - the good, the bad, the ugly. Do you think this will work, will fail, will fuck the bike community up? Share!!

I BIKE YOU!



Alex Thompson
04.13.08 - 11:48 pm

reply


nice. good idea.

I'll mark it up for you in the morning, before I go to work, lol/

Seriously,--good idea.



tern
04.13.08 - 11:52 pm

reply


Now you know why I missed the block party . . .

If you want to mark it up Tern, create a login, email me with it's name, and I'll set you up as an editor.



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 12:00 am

reply


No, seriously. I sent you an email with a couple of things I'd like to contribute. Ihaven't had a chance to check it out, yet. And, I need to get to bed....work in the morning. But, I'll take a good look at what you have tomorrow. I'd like to be included. I'll email you again tomorrow.



tern
04.14.08 - 12:15 am

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I was taking you seriously. I replied to your email. As soon as you have a login I can set you up as an editor and you can edit.

Seriously - anyone wants in, do what Tern did and that's about all it will take. If we get overwhelmed we might slow things down for a little, but right now it's not a problem.



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 12:20 am

reply


I will look at all of the changes, so that I can get an Idea of where your group is going with this. I need to get to bed. But, I am excited about the framework you've created.



tern
04.14.08 - 12:47 am

reply


Activists & Personalities ???
Sounds likeThinkers and Clowns.
Am I the only one who finds this condescending?

Every ride, every bike action is given an owner and that's against the spirit of the leaderless anonymity of Critical Mass and to a certain extent of Midnight Ridazz.

You have to apply for writing privileges. Top down hierarchy.

I see a lot of fences, keys and property rights where there used to be open plains.

Good luck!



marino
04.14.08 - 1:14 am

reply


Well Marino - I had to put Sexy in there . . . so it's tough to classify. I mean he's 9/10's personality, 2/10's awesome, and 71% nice guy.

What do you suggest? What is a better terminology? I mean how do we refer to Franz vs Marino, vs Monica Howe vs Handbone?

The access issue - here's what happens if I open it up now to public editing now:

either no one likes it and nothing happens . . .

Or a bunch of people, without previous wiki experience, start editing like crazy Then I spend the next two months of my life educating people on wiki markup and trying to cobble together some kind of core group of admins.

I said I'd open it up to public editing between May 14th and June 14th. That's a commitment. I told Bikerowave I would quit after March, ask them if I did. I live up to my commitments.



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 1:22 am

reply



Activists & Personalities ???
Sounds likeThinkers and Clowns.
Am I the only one who finds this condescending?

Every ride, every bike action is given an owner and that's against the spirit of the leaderless anonymity of Critical Mass and to a certain extent of Midnight Ridazz.

You have to apply for writing privileges. Top down hierarchy.

I see a lot of fences, keys and property rights where there used to be open plains.

Good luck!

marino
04.14.08 - 4:14 am



reply




Anarchy
04.14.08 - 1:33 am

reply


Did someone say Tinkers and Clowns?

Is someone on their period?

"I mean he's 9/10's personality, 2/10's awesome, and 71% nice guy." and your going to be a doctor of math?

This is going to be great. So sorry I put my additions on the back burner.. I'll get on it soon.

This is going to be cool to look back on. This is somewhat important that we document our history. Its best to write this, as it is fresh in our minds.

Thanks Alex, you are coming up with great ideas and trying to make them happen. I'll be happy to be part of this.





sexy
04.14.08 - 1:38 am

reply


Sexy is a perfect example of why labeling people is stupid.
Is he an activist, ride organizer or personality?
He's all of the above isn't he?
Same for you Alex.

And those who are not Activists what are they? Couch potatoes? Serial Nappers?

Franz is Active. But he's not an Activist? Why? Because he doesn't write letters to his Elected Officials? Because he may not sit through hours of mind numbing boredom at City Council meetings?

The Wiki is fine but putting labels on people and segregating them to separate pens is not.




marino
04.14.08 - 2:14 am

reply


Alex ThompsonX(Tupac Shakur+.Sheldon Brown+Wikpedia)
= ibikeu Wiki



HANDBONE
04.14.08 - 2:31 am

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I know I get ignored on this site, often. But, I can write. That's what I have been trained to do. Okay, I'm a bit lax on MR, but this is right up my alley. And, I know wiki. Maybe I should say I know what a wiki is--and how it works. Anyone can do this. Just email Alex with your ideas...and know how to work within an editing group. If you don't know....look it up. This thing seems to be fairly open to everyone who can understand the platform...which is really easy.



tern
04.14.08 - 2:41 am

reply


2Pac is an essential element of ibikeu Wiki.

Marino,

Basically a big long list of things is a good way to start populating a wiki. It gives a list of things for people to start writing about. Those lists are from the very first days of the wiki, and they're like long lists to myself of people to write about. Once you've written about the people you can get rid of the lists - the lists are like scaffolding for the finished product. I didn't get to writing about most of those peeps, but maybe those lists can help others to build the wiki to whatever form it eventually takes, maybe not.

I don't think that those lists said "one cannot be an activist and a ride organizer". The labels are not exclusive, nor are they final. They're certainly not intended as a system of elitism or status. Personally I enjoy being a personality more than I do an organizer . . . but with the level of mayhem involved to be Alex the RIDA, I can't keep it up all day. Richie probably could though. They're just words - a way to describe a person, but not a substitute for knowing.

Perhaps I'll go in and fool around with the wording tomorrow . . . perhaps not.



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 2:42 am

reply


Alex thanks for at least considering...

G'nite everybody (Alex,Handbone,Tern)
Got to go to sleep now.



marino
04.14.08 - 2:51 am

reply


That's a nice, bio you have for yourself there Mr Thompson.
I remember you saying something to me about mathematics, now it all adds up.
I'm only starting the College Algebra, 105-level myself.
But, to each his/her own specialty, I guess.



bentstrider
04.14.08 - 7:06 am

reply


i dont know dick about fuck for wikipedia, but ill help you out, alex.
now does that make me an activist, a ride organizer, or a personality?



ruinedbyidiots
04.14.08 - 8:28 am

reply


"activist, ride organizer, or personality"

-It's starting to sound like a character-classification for a "Command & Conquer" game.
Perhaps the "personality" listing should be broken down into categories as well.





bentstrider
04.14.08 - 9:03 am

reply


No more talking about the people classifications!!! It's old stuff I just created to get started.

RBI - it's a lot easier than HTML markup, and you get to see the results instantly, so it's easier to learn. Create a login then email me the login and I'll give you editor status:

Create an account



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 10:23 am

reply


You can help create an article I will soon be working on:

The top ten general needs of the ibikeu Wiki:

1. A section explaining the Parts of the Bicycle
2. A section summarizing the Types of Bicycles
3. A section about the History of Bicycles
4. A section outlining the structure of Federal Funding for Bicycle Infrastructure
5. Entry for the normal condition of true cyclists - Unemployed
6. Sections describing the major national organizations surrounding bicycles
7. A section outlining the History of Bicycle Racing
8. Expansion of the glossary of Bicycle Infrastructure Terms and correct wikification of that article.
9. A section on Road Bikes
10. A section on Mountain Bikes



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 10:26 am

reply


It's hard for me to get enthusiastic about 1 through 3 since other great resources already exist such as Sheldon's site. If I wrote something in those categories I'd probably end up plagiarizing too much.

And PhD in Math from UCLA? Rad, BS was enough for me.



toweliesbong
04.14.08 - 10:35 am

reply


Towlies - if this thing takes off I intend to talk to Sheldon's estate and ask them if they want to create a special section on the wiki of all Sheldon's writing.

Like that bio? I wrote about the stuff I know best. We should add a bunch more criticism to the bio. Maybe vspangle or Marino can help with that . . .



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 10:37 am

reply


? I have a BS in Math from UCI.



toweliesbong
04.14.08 - 10:39 am

reply


Towlies - Ever take classes from Matt Foreman? Bentstrider, if/when your page goes up, the photo has to be a pic of you, your bike, and a big rig.



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 10:43 am

reply


No, man, I'm old, looks like he received his PhD around the time I graduated.



toweliesbong
04.14.08 - 10:47 am

reply


I already got that one covered dude.
Another good addition could be an article on how to deal with stubborn, traffic signals that are only triggered by a heavy weight.

I've always wondered about the hypothetical, situation of waiting for a light to never change.
You try to blow through it when no traffic's present, only to get nailed by a cop for running a red.





bentstrider
04.14.08 - 10:50 am

reply


I believe that if you wait sufficiently long for a signal and it doesn't change, you are allowed to proceed with caution. Tough situation.



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 10:57 am

reply


And here I was thinking that all the cops up here are busy, busting the patrons of bars at 2AM.

I've also wanted to add that flashing signals with your bikelights tends to work occassionally.



bentstrider
04.14.08 - 11:25 am

reply


marino wrote:

Activists & Personalities ???
Sounds like Thinkers and Clowns.
Am I the only one who finds this condescending?


You're probably one of very few. Condescending? Diplomatic is more like it. Not everybody with a personality is an activist, and lord knows not every activist has a personality. Everybody does his or her bit, but they're not all the same bit--and trying to pretend otherwise is just goofy.

Every ride, every bike action is given an owner and that's against the spirit of the leaderless anonymity of Critical Mass and to a certain extent of Midnight Ridazz.

You must be reading the part of the wiki that was written in invisible ink. The few rides/actions that have been described at all on this nascent web resource have not been assigned "owners," although in the case of Midnight Ridazz the usual history is presented with the names of some of the early organizers. Is there something I missed? Some "Owners of Rides" page, or the like? Remember, I'm not applying lemon juice to my screen and holding it over a candle so it's entirely possible that something went by me.

You have to apply for writing privileges. Top down hierarchy.

No argument there, at least factually. I guess it's a matter of whether you can keep your blood pressure down for a few weeks of oppressive dominant paradigm imposition by Messrs. Thompson and Bringetto until they open it up to public editing.

I see a lot of fences, keys and property rights where there used to be open plains.

I see an awkward metaphor looming like an ugly industrial tower over the field of your argument, where once nymphs and fairies frolicked on the green. Dude, this is a brand new website. It replaces, quite literally, nothing.




PC
04.14.08 - 12:06 pm

reply


+3 what PC said

Marino,

I reorganized the people categories so that they make more sense. I also established some, admittedly, arbitrary criteria for inclusion in these categories. The specific lists that you complained about I will clean up after I eat some food. For the time being though - check these out:

People category

Every person described in the wiki should get added to this category

Activists category

The arbitrary criteria - somewhat subjective - for inclusion is: if a non cyclists in the mainstream would describe one as an activist if aware of their activities.

Ride Organizers

Anyone who has ever organized a public ride.

Organization Leaders

Past and current leadership of orgs. Somewhat subjective.

Political Figures

People like LA City Council, the Governor, etc. I could use some help better describing criteria for inclusion.

Public Officals

Political figures + people like Michelle Mowery (Bicycle Coordinator for LADOT) or Eileen Fogerty (Planning Director for SM).



This is just a framework to use while we add more entries. Right now there's only like 12 people in the wiki. I assume if the roadies and mountain bikers start participating we can expect some categories for racers etc. That would be cool.



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 12:35 pm

reply


Russ and Alex thank you for working so hard on this.

I'm probably annoying and I don't think I'll ever be happy with the concept of People Categories . If I had writing privileges I'd deface that section immediately. To me it seems wrong to label people into groups. No matter how many groups there are or how vaguely they are defined.

It's probably just personal cause I don't want to be all alone in the Short Fat Bearded Greeks category. But I'll try to give to my opposition a non personal rationale.

The bike community in Los Angeles is free, open and non - hierarchical, a unique social structure unlike anything in the "real" world. I find it disturbing when in our attempts to describe it we seek terms from the mainstream society. Everybody needs to have a "job description". We must have "leaders", "organizers", "spokespeople", "personalities/entertainers". And every "show" (bike ride) must have an "organizer/producer".

Is that the only way we can describe the bike community?
By borrowing paradigms from a world we are trying to ride away from? Why not describe the bike community like a field of grass, a flock of birds, a school of fish? A mass of individuals covering great distances together.

As for the "invisible ink section" that Russ referred to where each ride is assigned an owner;it is right here: http://www.ibikeu.com/wiki/index.php/Ride_Organizers

That section will be very helpful with the police. They always ask us; "Who organized this?" and we never knew what to tell them. Now we have website to point them to.

I'm sorry. I don't want to be an asshole but a wiki that segregates the bike community into doers and followers and the wiki into writers and readers is against the spirit of this community where everybody is responsible for each ride and against the spirit of the wiki where everybody is responsible for the content of the articles.



marino
04.14.08 - 2:54 pm

reply


What's up with the Bike Writer's Collective logo being up top? Is it a Bike Writer's Collective thing, or a bike riders' collective thing?

. . . . . . .

A logo (Greek λογότυπος = logotypos) is a graphical element, (ideogram, symbol, emblem, icon, sign) that, together with its logotype (a uniquely set and arranged typeface) form a trademark or commercial brand. Typically, a logo's design is for immediate recognition, inspiring trust, admiration, loyalty and an implied superiority.

. . . . . . .

To whom are you implying superiority? Me?



katiepoche
04.14.08 - 3:27 pm

reply


HELVETIA



ruinedbyidiots
04.14.08 - 3:28 pm

reply


Follow-up, and to clarify:

If it must have a logo (and it's not a bad idea -- we would be implying superior knowledge of bike culture over, say, people who don't ride bikes), then let's make one. But using the logo of the Bike Writer's Collective -- who represent bikers and writers in Los Angeles only -- represents ibikeu inaccurately.



katiepoche
04.14.08 - 3:28 pm

reply


ruinedbyidiots:

Helvetica Neue Extra Bold Condensed.



katiepoche
04.14.08 - 3:44 pm

reply


Marino, if you can't (or simply refuse to) tell the difference between an organizer and an owner, then I don't know what to tell you.

Also, you're kidding yourself if you think that rides organize themselves, or that certain people don't have more flamboyant personalities than others, or that some folks don't spend a lot of time at public meetings while others rarely or never do. Here in the reality-based community, those distinctions exist and can be (and frequently are) noted, even if they overlap more often than they might in other social groups. All anybody is doing with the wiki is writing it down--in a format that anybody will be able to edit.

Wishing doesn't make things so. Wishing that you were involved in a "culture" without conventional "paradigms" does not create that culture or place you in it.

Want to be part of a scene that is "free, open and non - hierarchical, a unique social structure unlike anything in the 'real' world"? By all means, create one. But LA "bike culture" ain't it. Without a doubt it's unique, and it's relatively open, but in fact it's like quite a lot of things in the real world. There are tasks to be done, there's division of labor, there's competition and a marketplace of sorts. There's a social ladder that some people climb more quickly than others, there are jocks and nerds, cool kids and nobodies, people with self-serving agendas and people who bust ass behind the scenes and ask for nothing in return. And of course, a lot of people networking and trying to get laid, God bless 'em.

Don't shoot the messenger, guy, I'm just telling you what I see. Insisting that others not notice things that you wish didn't exist is an ineffective way to change reality.



PC
04.14.08 - 3:45 pm

reply


@Katie

The logo is old. In a previous life - like say last month - we were privately developing the wiki AND the Bike Writers Collective was using it to draft documents. Those docs have since been purged from the wiki. A very savvy wiki user could track down those docs if they wanted.

A new logo is almost ready to be kicked out . . . just a few days.

@Marino

The universe is such that it defies perfect description. In fact, some mathematics could be construed as evidence that perfect description is impossible.

So it is with the bike community. However, as a scientist, I value good but imperfect descriptions. To me the wiki is like a crappy theme park map - all gaudy and confusing and out of proportion and not reflective of reality

but it's enough to get me to the rollercoaster.

That's all the wiki's trying to do - get more people on the rollercoaster

(in a slightly different way than MR)



Alex Thompson
04.14.08 - 3:47 pm

reply


really good points Marino..... besides I can already see issues and inaccuracies in the writing and I dont care to have to log in to fix it or even argue about it with someone or a group of people if someone else argues differently. it's more work than worth and some things shouldnt be known. ESPECIALLY to the authorities. I would appreciate if you could remove all references to me on that site. thanks.

in reference to another of Marino's points maybe you want to change the classifications from "activists, personalities and organizers" to simply "lobbyists" in reference to those that are involved in swaying local government actions. and in my mind anyone who organizes and or participates in rides is an "activist" AND a personality. I guess there should be classified levels of activism and personalities but then you are open to all the back and forth bickering about who's more important than whom and what role do they play in the "scene"

one thing I see from the crimanimal mass thread is that you now have yourself a place to post the kind of rides invoking the more extreme activities that would be rejected on this site (to some people's dismay) like the freeway ride for example. and I also see that with a bit of work you can provide a great source of information on bicycling. if you can convince the owners of sheldon brown's body of work to copy it into your database, that would be huge for the site. though I'm not sure I'd want to see his work get modified in a wiki by those who would think they know more than him. maybe if sheldons estate releases the work one condition would be that you can somehow lock up the work and keep people from messing with it including the editors?

your site could be a really powerful localized lobbyist tools and history site. documenting all the actions groups like the bike writer's collective have done to forward bicycle related improvements in the city. there is a huge need for that and what you guys do. someone could keep notes on every city council meeting and every mta meeting you and other groups attend and display it in the wiki. I think that right there is a very cool and relevant. I know the lacbc needs something like this and if you guys do it that's another resource for the more active cyclists among us to use.

just my 2 cents.




Roadblock
04.14.08 - 4:04 pm

reply


@ Marino,

I agree philosophically, with what you are saying.
I have long pondered the stupidity labels on people, which like stereotypes are just lazy shorthand for understanding who people are. And what they may or may not do.

I do however , think that you are proposing what you want the bike culture to be rather than what it really is.

While every rider may be a personality, an activist and even a ride steward. Some do much more than others to make things happen.

We often ride planned routes that have been ridden and tested by somebody. We get ephemera that has been designed, produced, and paid for by somebody out of their own pocket.

I'm not saying that this is BikeCulture™ INC. but even a deliberately non-hierarchical organization like Critical Mass has over the years, had its stewards and organizers and voices that have put their personal stamp on the organization, its culture and its public perception.

With MR ... its clear, if Skull for instance or RB had some very strong feelings about the direction of the organization their feelings would be taken very seriously, because of their history as organizers of the group and all the sweat and love they have put into it.

+++++++++

Maybe a music metaphor might illustrate my point better.

I do not think there is a strict division between, disco, funk, r&b, hip hop, punk, rock, reggae, or "electronica". In fact I think to merely reduce music to pre-defined genres does disservice some of the most interesting music that defy genre.

At the same time I do organize my records in the groups above as it is the easiest way for me personally to organize my records.

Yes it is painfully reductive to call the Clash an 80's Punk/ New wave band. But I always know where to find my Clash records.

+++++++++++

Using labels like these on people in the Bike Community may not be the most BC thing in terms of communicating the very valid philosophy you are espousing, BUT it will, I think, make it much easier to organize information, and easier for people to understand how to find what they are looking for, and how different people fit into the giant organic social puzzle that is Bicycle Culture.





trickmilla
04.14.08 - 4:07 pm

reply


Alex, I appreciate all the work you are doing to document our lives. I love everything you’ve done so far.
-a



alec
04.14.08 - 5:09 pm

reply


unless you are working at a record store, records are to be stored alphabetically, not by genre.



ruinedbyidiots
04.14.08 - 5:30 pm

reply


^^^^He's right, you know.^^^^



PC
04.15.08 - 1:33 am

reply


knittens yoused teh sandbox

dis gud wikeys

kthxbai



Knittens
04.15.08 - 11:42 am

reply





Reverend Dak created a Reverend Dak page

He also expanded the list of ride organizers - can y'all think of more people to add to this list? I'm sure you can.

List of Ride Organizers in Los Angeles Metro Area



Alex Thompson
04.15.08 - 7:10 pm

reply


Katie,

There's a new logo up. Go check it out and see if it's to your satisfaction as a one to two month interim design.



Alex Thompson
04.17.08 - 11:34 am

reply


it isnt normal html. its confusing.

Ruinedbyidiots is in the house. Is he Unemployed? Inquiring minds want to know.

sort of.



ruinedbyidiots
04.17.08 - 11:40 am

reply


Once you learn it, it's easier to work with. E-rock, Spook, and PC are going crazy with it. I can barely view their edits as fast as they're making them.

Ur SMRT . . . you'll get it.

I am also sort of unemployed.



Alex Thompson
04.17.08 - 11:43 am

reply


Alex --

The logo's great insofar as it's different from the Bike Writer's Collective logo. That was my only concern. (I actually really like the BWC logo -- it's elegant and direct and STYLIE! and tells you what the organization's about in an instant.)

I won't comment on this logo here because it's not really my place. If you want comments, though, let me know, and I'll e-mail you.

Some of the best and most productive times of my life were while I was unemployed.



katiepoche
04.17.08 - 12:36 pm

reply


Wow, in rereading what I just wrote, that sounded really terse. Didn't mean it that way. (This is what I get for posting at work.) I'm super excited about this, and I think it's a crazy good idea. There's gonna be a day when we all can't imagine when this wiki didn't exist, and I'm guessing that day's going to be pretty soon. I bike it a lot.



katiepoche
04.17.08 - 12:52 pm

reply


unless you are working at a record store, records are to be stored alphabetically, not by genre.

ruinedbyidiots
04.14.08 - 8:30 pm

reply



^^^^He's right, you know.^^^^

PC
04.15.08 - 4:33 am

reply


The one difference being? The one that matters? He's a DJ. By genre is more relavent when you're spinning. 'Trick, am I right?



Eric Hair
04.17.08 - 1:08 pm

reply


but like, how does ruinedbyidiots page get to look like kyle hertlers? why cant it be like angelfire/geocities circa 1997?



ruinedbyidiots
04.17.08 - 1:09 pm

reply


djs usually store their singles by bpm, yeah.



ruinedbyidiots
04.17.08 - 1:10 pm

reply


Katie,

I can imagine it didn't exist right now!



Alex Thompson
04.17.08 - 1:12 pm

reply


make it happen



hartwick, youre a pussy
04.17.08 - 1:17 pm

reply


Hartwick just made the first inside joke about the ibikeu wiki!



Alex Thompson
04.17.08 - 1:29 pm

reply


RBI: "but like, how does ruinedbyidiots page get to look like kyle hertlers? why cant it be like angelfire/geocities circa 1997?"

Copy + paste. That's why mine looks so much like Alex's



SPOOK
04.17.08 - 1:40 pm

reply


oh snap that makes it so much easier.



ruinedbyidiots
04.17.08 - 1:56 pm

reply


RBI.. might make it happen...



e-rock
04.17.08 - 2:06 pm

reply


i feel wierd talking about myself. does someone want to volunteer to write my bio?



ruinedbyidiots
04.17.08 - 2:33 pm

reply


i feel weird doing work when i could be writing my bio, does someone want to do my work?



e-rock
04.17.08 - 2:36 pm

reply


Are you sure RBI? ...



Joe Borfo
04.17.08 - 2:38 pm

reply


Borfo wishes he could piss on your profile! Wiki urine.



Alex Thompson
04.17.08 - 2:41 pm

reply


rbi wrote:
i feel wierd talking about myself. does someone want to volunteer to write my bio?

Just pretend you are in High School writing your bio for a college application.

List all the clubs and committees you ever joined and use the word "Leader" & "Leadership" a lot.

Follow the example of The Leader.



marino
04.17.08 - 4:12 pm

reply


YES - follow my lead in using the wiki as a vehicle for self promotion. If all Ridazz self promote more think how much more awesome the world will think we are. Then the world will want to be like us, and we'll get all the ladies. This is the goal!

(Spook's page is longer than mine now!)



Alex Thompson
04.17.08 - 4:45 pm

reply


tecate



ruinedbyidiots
04.17.08 - 4:52 pm

reply


Alex,
if all the world becomes like us how are WE going to get all the ladeezz ???
It doesn't add up.

Anyway, I have a lady already and I'm making a well intentioned effort here so some day you'll get laid too.

Here is the secret:
Ladies don't like men who describe themselves as LEADERS unless they have lots of money to back it up. Ladies view other men who describe themselves as leaders as egotistical, full of themselves or in other words pompous asses.

In a similar fashion Activist=Spokesperson=Representative=Leader another turn off right there.

If the goal is to get laid and really that's the only worthy goal may I suggest some categories everybody understands:

w4m m4m m4w w4w

Non-hierarchical, full of love.
Peace!





marino
04.17.08 - 5:04 pm

reply


what if you're name is arid and you enjoy DVDA?



spiraldemon
04.17.08 - 5:08 pm

reply


Marino,

I'm shooting for accuracy. That's the best criteria by which I can write about myself and feel ok that it won't be too self aggrandizing. Leader is accurate. I am a leader. What's the beef with that? It doesn't say I'm a good leader.

If you object to accurate exposition, then I suggest you stay away from documentary projects.

Some people are crushing on the wiki right now . . . so I tell you what - we'll settle up on the value of labels issue, or the general character of my facilitation, in a month. We ought to have more data to play with in terms of the value/lack of value of such things by then.

Also - I challenge you to summarize your own participation in the bike culture here, accurately, and we'll see what words you use.



Alex Thompson
04.17.08 - 5:21 pm

reply


Everyone's referencing Alex's page, hijacking his html formatting, etc., etc., meaning you're all reading his page. The topic of accuracy comes up, and no one points out that BikeRoWave wasn't founded in November 2007? C'mon, people. Get on it, if you're going to be on it.



katiepoche
04.17.08 - 10:14 pm

reply


On accuracy...

"Leaders" who:

- Never got elected and/or
- Can't point to a group of followers willing to acknowledge them as leaders.
aren't leaders in any objective, scientific, documentary worthy way.

Sure there are people who are more active, motivated, outspoken than others. I've helped start things in my life that changed the lives of hundreds of people around me but I wouldn't call myself a leader because:

- I was never elected
- I took the actions on my own initiative and not at the request of others.

I've helped start:
- A labor union
- Two online communities (in their tenth year now)
- A successful business

But I use the words "helped start", "manage","maintain". Not "leader". That implies the others are under your thumb. Nobody likes being under anyone's thumb.

When I came to the SM Critical Mass rides I came because I like to ride with large groups of people not because Alex Thompson was "leading" it.
I enjoy the LACM as well which is as leaderless as a bunch of leaves swirling in the wind. What makes the rides fun, is the group not its leaders (or absence thereof).

Alex, you know very well that Critical Mass by definition is leaderless. You say so in your own profile. This is what I'm defending; a bike community that has many volunteer instigators but absolutely no leaders.

If you are looking for objective criteria to classify people here are some:
- Type of bike (brand, color, fixed, geared)
- Place of residence
- Sex
- Sexual preference(s)
- Occupation
- Hobbies
- Age

Too myspacey? Here are some more:
- People who pull sound trailers
- People who wear Banana Costumes
- People who wear Bunny Costumes
- People who always take their clothes off
- People who ride far
- People who ride high
- People who take pictures
- People who write blogs
- People who ride tall bikes
- People who ride kid bikes
- People who are lawyers
- People who are ex-cons


Segregating people by leadership status (where leadership is defined as how often one speaks to the authorities) is just your personal fetish and it has nothing to do with this community.

Yeah. And I won't shut up because I've taken a leadership position representing all the ridazz who want no stinkin leaders. :-)



marino
04.17.08 - 10:17 pm

reply


Bikerowave was never "founded," because to say that it was founded implies that there were founders, and the idea of founders is a hegemonic, hierarchical artifact that has no place here on Planet Bike Culture where there are no leaders and no categories and hamburgers eat YOU.

My name is Marino Pascal, and I approve of this message.



PC
04.17.08 - 10:24 pm

reply


Al Gore invented the internet!



sc_nomad
04.17.08 - 10:29 pm

reply


Russ I salute you as an activist because of your Banana Costume and because you ride back and forth to San Pedro on a sexy italian frame. All your other opinions....I can't hear you... you don't have a megaphone....



marino
04.17.08 - 10:42 pm

reply


TWO sexy Italian frames, motherfucker. And I don't need a megaphone, I've got a Marinophone.



PC
04.17.08 - 10:47 pm

reply


Oh and here are the Bikerowave Bylaws . I couldn't find the words "leader" or "executive".

Anyway I went back to ibikeu and read some more stuff.
The stuff that Eric, Rev Dak added are pretty funny. I LOLed with Eric's article on employment
and then when you click on Fluffing
You get:

For Fluffing

The action you have requested is limited to Editors & Sysops


Damn!
Make me editor motherfuckas.



marino
04.17.08 - 11:10 pm

reply


Marino, as I understand it, a wiki allows for community editing of all content. This lets a huge collection of varying viewpoints collaboratively add, edit, delete and re-add content until each constituency feels content enough, or exhausted enough, not to challenge the current entry.

So when Alex is done editing, just provide your own edit. : )
He may disagree, I may disagree, but the point is to come to some sort of homogenous conclusion that is, in theory, accurate enough for outsiders to read it and not be shortchanged one bias or another.

I know that all edits must be validated by someone or some collection of someones. How does the validation process work for ibikeu? Is there anything stopping Marino from editing Alex's page? If not; HOORAHHH!





Eric Hair
04.17.08 - 11:26 pm

reply


At this point there are two dozen people with editing privileges. Maybe half a dozen of them active.

All the edits are "live" but they can be rolled back.

Alex said that he will open it up to everybody in a month. After they build up some content. I'm screaming cause I don't want to see local bike history written around the theme of "leadership". By "leader/activist" they mean which "cyclist" has the closest contact with the local authorities, attends city hall meetings, neighborhood councils, has a blog.

I hold the view that this community has grown despite any contacts with the local authorities. I believe in Los Angeles we have the largest, strongest autonomous movement in the United States.It has its roots in Critical Mass with party sprinkled on top thanks to Midnight Ridazz. It's awesome and we don't owe it to any bureaucrat or bureaucrat mediator wannabe.

When Alex comes to MR to post "ibikeu. Look what I built for you!" and he has prepared a troika of 30 "activists/leaders" who may be decent people but go to more city council meetings than bike rides and almost none of which are Midnight Ridazz, it's like saying; "Let me introduce you to your new Leaders." And just like after any other coup he says; "Freedoms will be limited in the foreseeable future until things get in order. After that democracy will be restored."

Luckily the bloggers are too busy with their own blogs to take it in the direction Alex was aiming at. The last couple of days the pranksters and true Midnight Ridazz have taken over and breathing in some life to that thing.

So yeah Alex thanks for not being a complete bonehead and inviting some F.U.N. people as editorzz.



marino
04.18.08 - 12:59 am

reply


I wish KNITTENS would take over ibikeu.
KNITTENS is fun. Alex Thompson is boring.



marino
04.18.08 - 1:19 am

reply


Marino,

This isn't cool any more. I've worked hard on this and it's not hegemonic in any sense. I like what Spook, E-Rock, PC, Brassknuckle, Dak et al are doing with it. It was always the intent to give local cultures a place to have FUN. That's why we've had little sections of vandalism from the beginning. I even expressed that hope on my and Paul's behalf when I announced the wiki on Westside BikeSIDE:

Our hope is that the bike community will clamp the ibikeu Wiki in it’s teeth, thrash it, chew it up, and spit it out as an awesome resource for all cyclists. We hope it can be of use for cyclists ranging from race focused roadies to die hard militant Critical Mass riders. It can be used to document general knowledge and specific regional knowledge.

It was never intended as an ego trip. I put up my profile because it was fun for me, and it turned out to give others a good idea about how to start theirs. I will in turn look to theirs for ideas when I write about other people.

I think you're basically a good person. However, I feel really shat upon by you. My intent here is to enable the community and you just lambaste me with accusations and unwarranted criticism.

I feel hurt. I feel like this is pointless bickering that does nothing but make me feel like shit.

Look - I'm a fucking human being too. What is it that you want from me? Why don't you ask the people contributing if I'm doing this evil shit? Ask them what they think.



Alex Thompson
04.18.08 - 1:37 am

reply


It's just off by a year Katie. Good spot.



Alex Thompson
04.18.08 - 1:40 am

reply


I figured. It was an attempt to be funny amid the beginning of some weirdness. Tried to derail it. NOPE.



katiepoche
04.18.08 - 1:42 am

reply


what is this weird Net-Banging over a fucking wiki entry ?

Alex Thompson power to you fucking genious.

"I DO WHAT I WANT !"



HANDBONE
04.18.08 - 1:42 am

reply


HANDBONE is best name ever - he has shins of power!

Katie - I always miss that subtle humor. Dammit, I am unsubTLE. Well, it needed correcting anyway.



Alex Thompson
04.18.08 - 1:44 am

reply


No bigs. Maybe I'm not a very good derailleur.

DID YOU SEE THAT?? THAT WAS A PUN.

A BIKE PUN.



katiepoche
04.18.08 - 1:46 am

reply


2 demerits.



Alex Thompson
04.18.08 - 1:49 am

reply


< Pun hands, thrown up in air, slowly and haltingly lowered. >



katiepoche
04.18.08 - 1:55 am

reply


Alex,

The Wiki is mad. I'm a Yaysayer! The process may be messy but it is surely worth it. Keep on it and be proud.

Stephen




SoapBoxLA
04.18.08 - 1:57 am

reply


^soapbox i just read that post on your blog and got really heated. i hate to say but it is so typical of the mta.



HANDBONE
04.18.08 - 2:05 am

reply


hope everyones okay.



HANDBONE
04.18.08 - 2:05 am

reply


marino wrote:

At this point there are two dozen people with editing privileges. Maybe half a dozen of them active.

All the edits are "live" but they can be rolled back.

Alex said that he will open it up to everybody in a month. After they build up some content. I'm screaming cause I don't want to see local bike history written around the theme of "leadership". By "leader/activist" they mean which "cyclist" has the closest contact with the local authorities, attends city hall meetings, neighborhood councils, has a blog.

I hold the view that this community has grown despite any contacts with the local authorities. I believe in Los Angeles we have the largest, strongest autonomous movement in the United States.It has its roots in Critical Mass with party sprinkled on top thanks to Midnight Ridazz. It's awesome and we don't owe it to any bureaucrat or bureaucrat mediator wannabe.

When Alex comes to MR to post "ibikeu. Look what I built for you!" and he has prepared a troika of 30 "activists/leaders" who may be decent people but go to more city council meetings than bike rides and almost none of which are Midnight Ridazz, it's like saying; "Let me introduce you to your new Leaders." And just like after any other coup he says; "Freedoms will be limited in the foreseeable future until things get in order. After that democracy will be restored."

Luckily the bloggers are too busy with their own blogs to take it in the direction Alex was aiming at. The last couple of days the pranksters and true Midnight Ridazz have taken over and breathing in some life to that thing.


Having feelings is good, Marino, but thinking is good too. You're doing vanishingly little of the latter right now.



PC
04.18.08 - 2:09 am

reply


All better and riding daily!



SoapBoxLA
04.18.08 - 2:10 am

reply


328.



SPOOK
04.13.09 - 3:02 pm

reply


There should be a juno article.



rayrayray
04.13.09 - 4:14 pm

reply


tWAT?



Joe Borfo
04.13.09 - 4:17 pm

reply


Alex,
if all the world becomes like us how are WE going to get all the ladeezz ???
It doesn't add up.

Anyway, I have a lady already and I'm making a well intentioned effort here so some day you'll get laid too.

Here is the secret:
Ladies don't like men who describe themselves as LEADERS unless they have lots of money to back it up. Ladies view other men who describe themselves as leaders as egotistical, full of themselves or in other words pompous asses.

In a similar fashion Activist=Spokesperson=Representative=Leader another turn off right there.



Here is a perfect example of why Men should not attempt to speak for Women.

I am a lady and I feel the exact opposite of the sentiment expressed in this post. While there is a fine line to walk between being a leader and being an egotistical prick, a man who can pull it off is pretty damn sexy to me.

Obama for example? He's a leader. He turns me on.




la duderina
04.13.09 - 4:20 pm

reply


limefly sez mikey wally should be a leader.



mikeywally
04.13.09 - 5:02 pm

reply


I am going to exercise my leadership qualities by pointing out that you're responding to an ancient post.



PC
04.13.09 - 5:38 pm

reply


@mikeywally - MAKE IT HAPPEN

File this thread under things I forgot about and I'm glad I did.

Is this a project that people think is worthwhile? I abandoned it 9 months ago when I just didn't know how, or have the will, to move it forward. It still sits there, sulking, on my projects list . . . it could always be reactivated.

I would also like to throw it out there - I'll race Marino up Beverly Glen in Grudge Race II. He can ride a bike, and I'll run - that ought to make it fair.



Alex Thompson
04.13.09 - 5:40 pm

reply


i update my ibikeu profile all the time!



mikeywally
04.13.09 - 6:59 pm

reply


Obama not only has money to back up his claims but the whole united states. thus the person who posted that ACIENT post was not including Robama



larsenf
04.13.09 - 7:11 pm

reply


It's not leadership in itself that's sexy. And stating that you're a leader is ... well, it's neither sexy nor unsexy. People who do stuff confidently and well are sexy. Sometimes they wind up being leaders — more often than people who do things poorly and without confidence, as it happens. These able, confident leaders are still sexy. Leaders are a subset of sexy.

See?



katiepoche
04.13.09 - 9:48 pm

reply


Leaders are not a subset of sexy. You were making sense right up until then, though. Would you like me to lead you to a better understanding of subsets?



PC
04.13.09 - 10:01 pm

reply


Come to think of it, your misunderstanding goes deeper than that. We'll first have to discuss power and charisma, both of which substantially overlap "sexy" without necessarily overlapping "confident" or "competent." Then we'll talk about that other thing.



PC
04.13.09 - 10:10 pm

reply


I would argue that charisma and confidence overlap almost exactly.

Give me a strong counterexample. Then, we can move on to the next point.



katiepoche
04.14.09 - 12:56 am

reply


I'll jump ahead and concede one thing.

Leaders are not a subset of sexy. Eww, Tony Blair. Maybe a Venn diagram. The two circles overlapping kind, not the two circles not touching kind.



katiepoche
04.14.09 - 1:01 am

reply


The cult leader Jim Jones was undeniably charismatic, but he was also paranoid and constantly in doubt of his followers' loyalty. Religious and political figures who possess a great deal of personal charm and the ability to inspire action and change minds (and get massively laid) are often terribly unsure of their own effectiveness, hence the loyalty tests, tantrums, and purges that we sometimes associate with them. Contrast this with the truly confident leader, who need not keep looking behind him to see whether anybody is following. And then there are the unsung legions who move confidently but quietly through life, with neither the ability nor the inclination to charm anybody in any overt way...



PC
04.14.09 - 1:20 am

reply


Now then, what was that next point?



PC
04.14.09 - 1:21 am

reply


Huh. You're right. I concede.

Thread-killer!



katiepoche
04.14.09 - 2:51 am

reply


What? What the fuck? I'm trying to start a literary feud with you. I'm tired of debating the same three people all the time. And here you're conceding?

What the fuck, poche. What. The. Fuck.



PC
04.14.09 - 3:18 am

reply


Haha. That was an epic thread. Are we starting over again? I stand by everything I've said.






marino
04.14.09 - 8:02 am

reply


don't surrender katie, oh man feel the sexy



steph
04.14.09 - 11:25 am

reply


Bring sexy back! PLZ!



SPOOK
04.14.09 - 6:26 pm

reply


Sexy is sexy.



imachynna
04.14.09 - 6:44 pm

reply


a.) PC, YOU FELL INTO MY TRAP. Saying "uncle" is the sure-firest way to get your goat, and your goat, it has been gotten. I have your goat.
b.) Sexy is sexy, and sexy is back.
c.) Where did sexy go?!
d.) PC, I think the crux of this whole thing is a gaffe on my part. I said "subset", which wasn't right. I was thinking Venn diagram when I first started writing, and then I started thinking about charts, and math, and lost the plot a bit, and out came "subset." If that sounds lame, that's because it is. Not lame as in "lame excuse" but lame as in "get your act together, woman." It had been a long day.
e.) Seriously. Sexy? Where'd you go.



katiepoche
04.14.09 - 10:03 pm

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Let me know if this chart is a better illustration of your meaning, PC.



katiepoche
04.14.09 - 10:09 pm

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Well, I'm not so sure that leaderyness couldn't reside anywhere on that chart--even in the parts that do not overlap. Admittedly it is hard to imagine a person exercising leadership on charisma alone (he would have to have some power, if perhaps only a local and temporary kind); but surely a person who has power but no charm or ability or true confidence can be a leader, and conceivably even a sexy one. Is there a way that you could account for that in your little chart that you worked so hard on?



PC
04.14.09 - 10:48 pm

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I didn't work so very hard on this. I needed to not be studying coffee for a short time. It was a welcome break. I will check back in with you fools later in the evening.

Revision!



katiepoche
04.14.09 - 11:31 pm

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That's better. Although at this point, the idea that your chart communicates most compellingly is that the relationship between leaderyness and sexy doesn't much lend itself to explanation by charts.



PC
04.14.09 - 11:51 pm

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Well, one could add hatch marks indicating the regions of sexiness and leaderyness and their overlap.

There's probably some kind of theorem that proves it's impossible to define all the contingencies of sexiness in a 2-dimensional Venn diagram, though.



nathansnider
04.15.09 - 12:08 am

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The thing that's bugging me most about the chart, other than the sheer inanity of me having made it, is that there's no reason to distinguish the four different regions of leaderyness at all if their intersections aren't going to yield a difference in sexy.

So like, here.



katiepoche
04.15.09 - 1:59 am

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Fuckit.



katiepoche
04.15.09 - 2:00 am

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i was listening to npr once and part of the program was on charisma.

one guy said that charisma was the ability to show two sides of yourself at the same time.

so princess diana was charismatic because she could be outside the royal system and queenlike, where as the queen is only the queen.



mikeywally
04.15.09 - 9:49 am

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Charisma is the new black.



SPOOK
04.15.09 - 12:23 pm

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