Helper brings up a good point
Thread started by
Roadblock at 07.21.09 - 11:38 am
the other thread went to shit and loads to slow. so this is the new more "rational" and "mature" thread....
despite his name calling and generalizations and what not, Helper brings up a good point. basically... the actions of the group reflect on the individuals... yes, the gangsters started it by throwing shit at the group.... and it turned tragic. hindsight of course is 20/20... but moving forward, we can recognize that people on both sides escalated it.... this was a lesson we all can learn.... work to de-escalate. at all costs... because the rep of this ride reflects on vulnerable individuals riding by themselves.... if we can't work to make this ride all inclusive and friendly.... then it should end because it will hurt us all as individuals in the long run.
we've all made mistakes using the mass as a cover for bravery... myself included...
RESIST the temptation to use the power of the mass to do something or say something negative and mean to people EVEN WHEN they start shit. there is wisdom in turn the other cheek... there really is...
reply
If somebody posts another bear dick reference, I am going to drop a deuce in yer mouf.
Joe Borfo07.21.09 - 11:48 am
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You are 100% Right On of course R.B.
We need to represent M.R. with positivity on the road.
I have often seen people tangle and escalate with carzz we need to squash that shit too.
trickmilla07.21.09 - 11:49 am
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perfect...
Roadblock,
Why cant CM just stay on major streets? Or at least if riding so late at night, just make a good rule of not riding on residential streets, where people are putting kids to sleep, wake up for work...
The route could stay on Fig, and you probably wont bother anyone...
thats just one suggestion about changing to approach to creating routes.
md207.21.09 - 11:52 am
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totally agree.
theres always two ends and we have to work together. or else both the ends explodes.
like a bear dick.
bring it on borfo, BRING IT!
KiMS107.21.09 - 11:52 am
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Midnight Ridazz is not Critical Mass. (yep)
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 11:55 am
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then just change CM to MR...
whats your point?
md2 responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
07.21.09 - 11:56 am
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MIke likes his bear dicks well done.
mattspeed responding to a
comment by KiMS1
07.21.09 - 11:58 am
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Just trying to say that MR is not the same animal.
Am I wrong?
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 11:59 am
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it's not a bad idea... honestly though, MOST of the time when we do go through residential streets there are a lot of folks who just react with amazement. I've seen it so many times... I remember in particular on the RWNN we were riing through vernon through a HOOD and there was a family on the porch just cheering and waving and a guy ran in and grab his two young sons and their bikes and joined us because I (or someone I dont remember) simply said "grab your bikes let's go!!" instead of a stupid snarky comment it was a message of you are one of us.... and they came along and were really excited about it all....
the neverland ride was extremely well behaved. seriously it was quiet and people were being really cool... it was the gangsters that started it and I dont know what happened or who said what but there was a point as we were riding by where someone could have simply said "hey that's not cool come ride with us..." instead of "fuck you" even if the gangsters would have scoffed and continued to try to escalate there were *some of the heads on their side who were trying to hold their homies back and keep it cool from what I've been told.... it's really easy to get all ego and try to one up the other side... that's the world that gangsters are caught up in. they have to be that way to maintain control... but we dont. we can be the ones to just ride on into the night.... sure. if someone is assualted we have to get them out of there and sometimes that also means calling the cops.... sometimes it's inevitable. but the point is to work hard to avoid that situation.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:02 pm
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but I think md2 has a good point. We're not CM, but rides that are huge, should probably be a bit more mindful of the communities they're riding through at night, even if that means keeping to non-residential streets... I mean, until people learn to be respectful...
There have been threads before Helper's that have addressed the increasingly bad reputation MR has been getting. We need to figure something out...
canadienne07.21.09 - 12:02 pm
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I doubt my suggestion would be read as anything called MR should be kept on main streets, but anything resembling CM should.
I think at this point, there is a sense of arguing just for the sake of...
Some MR is CM
Maybe some CM is not MR
I think the point is silly, and my suggestion is that "large rides" should respect neighborhoods late at night....
loud music,
screaming
chanting
md2 responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
07.21.09 - 12:03 pm
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I like the idea of staying on major streets. I do think it sucks that gangs limit the areas in which we can ride safely, but it is an issue. I really don't wanna split hairs anymore about how who handled what. All that matters is making sure that nobody gets hurt while doing something as simple as riding a bike. Yes, I believe that we should defend ourselves against ANYONE trying to cause us harm. However, staying out of their way in the first place isn't such a bad idea.
BlAcKnYeLLoWfUji07.21.09 - 12:05 pm
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I'm with you on this. Smaller and better controlled rides can go where they like, but it's slightly irresponsible to be dragging hundreds of loud (and a lot of the time, ill-mannered) kids through residential streets.
canadienne responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:05 pm
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roadblock,
I mentioned that point in a different thread...
i do think the reaction is special, but I noted, MR is not in its infancy anymore...
when we only did one ride a month it wasnt bad... but these are fairly regular.. I dont think its a surprise anymore....
plus MR is looking for progressing and open itself to more maturity and responsibility....
md2 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 12:07 pm
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main streets are usually better lit, too... which probably means less crashes, etc. Just a thought.
canadienne07.21.09 - 12:07 pm
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yes... loud music should be turned down... really it's more about the way we REACT to hostility. I fucking cringe everytime I see someone litter, or make a snarky comment back to a spectator. it burned me up on the neverland ride when a bystand simply asked "where are you going?" and someone in the crowd yelled back "to your moms" to which the bystander replied "what fuck you" I mean talk about ruining the magic...... a lost opportunity to win people over..... LOST OPPORTUNITY.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:08 pm
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yeah yeah yeah, fine. I respect your point about neighborhoods.
I'm just saying that I think that CM is not MR.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:08 pm
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i have a feeling you just dont like me...
no problem...
I guess I'm glad you expressed what you "think" CM is not... feel free to explain... because I dont see why the point needs to be made, or why its relevant.
Maybe im missing something about why youre referring to it.
md2 responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
07.21.09 - 12:11 pm
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RB said it best re: RWNN... I try to take it thru residential as much as possible and love watching people looking out their windows or working on cars, or just hanging out and you see the smiles on their faces.......
shit...I even get excited when people riding to crank mob would pass my street every time on sawtelle in groups...Imagine what they're seeing when it's upwards of 150+ people on bikes....
barleye responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 12:12 pm
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ahh man... MR is absolutely still in it's infancy maybe it's getting into the speaking years.... where by it's finally forming words.... it's only starting... it's still growing it's still morphing.... people still ask us what this is and where we are going.... people still wonder... people still rush to grab their bikes. damn it.... if everyone would just THINK to be positive and REPRESENT the way we used to.... with love and inclusion. that first time YOU saw us riding by or was told by a friend.... remember that time.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:12 pm
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yeah, that might be cool at 10 - 12, but after 12 i think we should stick to major roads out of respect
snowcone responding to a
comment by barleye
07.21.09 - 12:13 pm
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CM is MR in this town. the MR spirit invaded that ride long ago....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
07.21.09 - 12:14 pm
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Roadblock,
though I agree...
I think its good to note, that its really not just about how WE REACT to hostility...
Ive grown up in LA and surrounding neighborhoods all my life. Ive always been aroung gangs...
Its not always a matter of how you react... its really a no-win situation at times.
If you ride by a party at 130am, where gangsters are getting drunk...
im sorry, but if if you react cool as fuck... these arent weed smoking kids, listening to pink floyd...
put a little PCP in the mix, and fuck all your good attempts...
point -- why not just stay away---
in the end-- its THEIR Loss right?
md2 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 12:16 pm
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I saw a box spring get thrown out into the street during sins and sprockets.
We just rode on.
We were on a pretty major street rolling past the projects in Highland Park when a guy got pulled off his foldie by some dudes that had been heckling the ride.
Chicken Leather walked into the projects and snatched the bike back single-handedly (literally, he was holding his own bike and had 25lbs of bike tools on his back in a duffle bag).
We should take some cues from what went wrong here.
And as to RB's original point, foremost we should always try to deescalate any situation, whenever possible.
And yes ... we should be thoughtful about our routes and our impact on communities.
I don't think we need to avoid side streets, but people should be considerate of the time and noise level when we do.
We need to learn from this, or we are just as culpable in the next near tragedy as teh foolio who pulled the trigger.
trickmilla07.21.09 - 12:18 pm
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Personally I don't like rides on Main busy streets....reason #1 being that none of our large rides leave a lane open for cars....then when a car speeds by everyone gets all up in arms about it...There's no way around busy streets for the most part but I try to stay on them as little as possible if I'm leading a large ride.....If you have ever been on a Sins and Sprockets ride or it's orphaned bastard step child from a hermaphrodite mother named RWNN, you'd see how great it is to ride on residential streets at night.
barleye responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:18 pm
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that's not going to solve any problems, if we stay away every place where we are not welcome, we should just throw away our bikes
we may not be welcome now, but if we persist in the right manner, things will change
i just don't think we should be riding through small neighborhood streets with hundreds of people and music when people are likely trying to sleep just out of respect and nothing else
if it's not that late... i agree.. people love when we ride through.. they stand out on the street and their porches and cheer. i love it.
snowcone responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:19 pm
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Trust me.. I get it...
But we push the issue too much... I think we all get the sense of what were referring to...
This isnt... avoid any residental street...
I think the last MR i went on (wild west ride i think)... we went through HP and through residential streets for no reason whatsoever... it was pointless. There was nothing scenic about it... no reason to be on certain streets with that many people.. we even did this stupid circle through a residential neighborhood, when we were already on a main street -- pointless.
The early MR back in 05, I thought were great because they usually had an attempt at an inspired route....
I agree with you... i love seeing people excited... maybe Im wrong about the infancy issue... but my point is -- we've evolved enough to make different choices at this point.
md2 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 12:22 pm
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sure man... I hear you. I grew up here too... I know. I agree.. and we really should avoid hardcore neighborhoods.... but some residential streets are ok. some main streets are just as dangerous.... LA changes from block to block....
@trickmill... damn I remember that....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:22 pm
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not to belabor the point.. but thats why route leaders should take more responsibility...
They should "know" the streets.
Your not a leader if you really dont know where you're leading hundreds of people.
Sure, anything can happen anywhere...
I was on the ride when we passed by the farmers getting evicted in south los angeles...
i was almost hit by a car who literally drove through the pack of riders.. he could and would have killed many... maybe some rememeber... I thought then... do we really need to be here?
But i also thought it was a sign of support to people who needed it...
the point is-- we were there for "a reason'.... LA is big enough to ensure were doing all we can to lead people safely.
md2 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 12:29 pm
reply
the only difference between MR back then and now is the attitude. there were plenty of routes that went through residential streets and in 05 the numbers were compar-able to now.... the attitude was much more mature back then. I hate to say it but the average participants of MR became perhaps less wise.... and I'm not knocking "youngsters" because many of them ARE mature enough to handle this... though MR has gotten younger it's not an age issue so much as a noob issue. there are always the ones who come out and feel the power of the mass and insist on riding on the wrong side or being loud or being confrontational... but the maturity will come from these learning experiences we have....
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:29 pm
reply
a lot of people riding on the wrong side of the street aren't new
if mr continues to grow, the percentage of people who are new will remain pretty high... so it's important to take that into account
snowcone responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 12:32 pm
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We always need experienced Ridazz to step up and organize rides.
Sounds like you got good ideas. Put them in action.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:33 pm
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What are some good techniques for de-escalating conflict?
It sounds great in theory, but actually de-escalating a conflict effectively (without being a cowardly douchebag and then claiming you're a "pacifist" afterward) is more than a little tricky.
I definitely need to get better at this, but here are a couple of tips.
1. Do not lose your cool. Just because other people are getting all bent out of shape and acting threatening, doesn't mean you have to respond the same way. Just look at them calmly, and talk to them rationally. Testosterone poisoning is real, and when you're an uninvolved third party, it's hilarious to see how ridiculous guys look when they're challenging each other. So, if you're in this position, keep your hands open (don't make fists, unclench them if you've made them without realizing it), and calmly explain your side of the story.
2. See if the person confronting you has any more reasonable friends in the vicinity, and make eye contact with them as you talk. Many times, their friends will decide that it's not in anyone's best interest to attack somebody who's being reasonable, and help you de-escalate the conflict.
3. Keep talking. Do not be the first person to get physical. That never ends well. (This can get really funny if you're in a conflict where neither person wants to get physical, and you both realize it at the same time, at which point it's just a question of diplomatically moving away before you bust out laughing, so no one feels disrespected.)
Note: Sometimes none of this works, in which case it's time to bail as quickly and painlessly as possible, which is where pepper spray and your bike come in. But those are the LAST resort.
JB07.21.09 - 12:35 pm
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that was a GREAT ride and a great educational reason to be there. I had never been to the SC farms.... I learned so much about that place. I went back a few more times in the day to see the sadness that Horowitz dropped on that neighborhood.... it still breaks my heart to see the bulldozed fields. the people in that area need space to be alive and this heartless creep of a man took it away public support be damned.... but I digress...
you are right about the leadership issues.... it's a trade off.... there used to be a tight cabal of people running the show.... but they got burned out from the responsibility.... open it up to everyone and you risk miss managed or mediocre rides.... I think Fuzz did a great job. it was not even a bad choice to go through that street.... it was just a matter of having the maturity to avert a dangerous escalation... none of us had it that night... myself included.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:36 pm
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but then it was once a month... and it was the ONLY ride in LA (at least that Moncia was emailing)...
Back then, you guys were troubled about the "mob-mentality", so maybe its gotten worse... i dont frequent MR like I did then... but it has gotten younger (way younger)...
I think overall the leaders route selection is first and easiest change.
where they choose to stop (open liquor stores/markets)? Back in the day it was cool... for some reason I dont remember much theft... but i think younger kids are going at it different...
there are ways to curb behavior without having to educate or get on the loud speaker...
shit, this type of discussion has been going on for 5+ years... we're getting old.
md2 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 12:36 pm
reply
Its just as (or even more) important that we keep the interest of people who have been around a while. Rides that are interesting to more "mature" ridazz, fun, new, interesting things, heart warming traditions that bring the oldsters back.
The difference between then and now was the percentage of people that were core Ridazz and friends of friends and the number of random noobs we get on any night.
I LOVE to see a new ridaa having a blast. But we must also make sure that newer ridazz are schooled in the ways of MR. ie teach by example.
trickmilla responding to a
comment by snowcone
07.21.09 - 12:38 pm
reply
the key is being reasonable, showing them that you are a friend and not an enemy, try to understand why they are upset and apologize or reason with them.
people usually just get worn out and give up
it's a lot easier to wear someone out mentally than physically
snowcone responding to a
comment by JB
07.21.09 - 12:38 pm
reply
some good words....
I would add... no matter if you have the upper hand by sheer numbers appeal to the person's human empathy. give up all your will of power to that person. "hey man we're def are not looking to start shit with you at all. we're just passing through"
Roadblock responding to a
comment by JB
07.21.09 - 12:40 pm
reply
haha I dont know if I know you (probably recognize your face if I've never acrtually met you) but yes.... we are getting old and the crowd is getting younger.... probably why I I dont frequent the social rides as much... I have my Mondays and that's all I need. :)
it never used to be about the stops. it was about the ride.... lets keep that going.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:43 pm
reply
Sorry,
But you guys have it all wrong...
If some person is getting all crazy...
with all the alcohol and weed on these rides...
You'll make him/her a friend in a minute...
md2 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 12:44 pm
reply
haha that's not a bad idea. here have a beer... come smoke with us... bomb them with butter.
Roadblock responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:51 pm
reply
You are reading into things. I do like you. More than in an agape way.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 12:59 pm
reply
Im not into the whole phenom of putting my life online... pics and all.
People have this pussy meter based on it... but I just think I enjoy my privacy and dont care to display myself in that way... its nice being anonymous.
Im with you though... Id like to see MR get on track (more)...
I stick mostly to the trails and commuting now...
And I agree... the stops suck... (take note Crank Mob). Every ride has its gimmic... but we can lose sight on what made MR so great in the beginning, if we forget how much crap a lot of people went through for it to be AS accepted as it is... some of you might complain... but cops know what to do with MR now... at one point they we're lost for solutions.
At one point cars were in awe and honking... now you get more passengers shouting from cars "ride on". They're still getting mad though.
I think we all made our mistakes then, which makes it hard to point fingers at these younger kids, but if kids are reading this... understand it took a lot of close encounters to get it as popular as it is... so try to do better than some of us did, and make MR better than ever.
md2 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 1:07 pm
reply
md2,
Are you implying that the Neverland ride wasn't on a major street (52 ave)? Sure it could have stayed on Fig, but another mantra that gets used alot is to change up the route planning so as to not overwhelm drivers on one street, keeps the ride from spreading out, etc etc. I'm just asking if 52 Ave is a major street or not.
User1 responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 1:08 pm
reply
Cool... I knew those bunny ears would come in handy.
md2 responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
07.21.09 - 1:08 pm
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"the new WESTSIDE sign = devil horns up wit a thumb in the middle!" -SkidMarcus
Joe Borfo07.21.09 - 1:11 pm
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Joe,
The guy in your photo looks like my old philosophy professor at UCLA. Anyhow... just thought is was funny... maybe Im exposing to much about myself... despite my earlier post. Oh well, its Hollywood.
http://www.philosophy.ucla.edu/index.php/user-profile-one/userprofile/normore
md2 responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
07.21.09 - 1:14 pm
reply
I totally gonna take advantage of your love now...
what are you guys still like 23rd on the academic ratings?
md2 responding to a
comment by Joe Borfo
07.21.09 - 1:37 pm
reply
yes. I agree.
and to add, if you really have to convince people of the "wisdom of turning the other cheek"....then I think that is very symptomatic of.....
at least a level of ignorance or immaturity....something that really needs to be stressed, especially for METRO LA bicyclists.
I have been known to, on occaision, snap pretty hard on motorists...and especially those cowards who like to throw shit out their windows or scream, but throwing down with drunken thugs is certainly not an option.
I dont compete with bicyclists.
I dont compete with cars. If i wanted to, i'd be driving one.
Looking for wisdom? how about some from some teenage homeless street kids from the bay area? there was this band called Crimpshrine back when i was 7:
"Just walk away, turn around
Cuz you can spit in my face
And you can knock me down
And you can talk your shit
But no matter what you say
I'm not going to fight you so just walk away
Well I'm not a coward
But I'm not a fool
And I won't stoop to violence like you
I don't care if I'm a wimp like you say
I'm gonna run like hell so just walk away"
I've been a part of (what i would call) real critical mass events.
They are political, the people involved understand there is a point, and in most other cities I've lived in that point is solemnly taken by drivers.
Its a scientific fact that the human brain cannot react fast enough in a car going over 35 mph. so technically all of these people are "out of control" and they are texting and talking on the phone, or drunk...or all of those things at the same time.
SO basically....we ride around these streets with dirty air behind "out of control" people
in flying bullets. Point is....gangsters were the next to last concern for me in bicycling terms. Until now.
Helper07.21.09 - 1:54 pm
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It's the new form of population control.
Joe Borfo responding to a
comment by Helper
07.21.09 - 1:57 pm
reply
Its a scientific fact that the human brain cannot react fast enough in a car going over 35 mph. so technically all of these people are "out of control" and they are texting and talking on the phone, or drunk...or all of those things at the same time.
Elaborate--
Human brain cannot react fast enough for what???
If im driving 35mph, and I see a stop sign, my experience has shown, that I react fast enough to stop where Im generally supposed to stop.
The same seems to occur on the freeway at 75mph... when I see my exit... I tend to make it on the off ramp... then again, like most... i think my brain is special.
Sorry... Im probably egging him on for another post....
BUT WORK IS SOOOO SLOW
md2 responding to a
comment by Helper
07.21.09 - 2:04 pm
reply
do the research for yourself, I already did a while back.
Basically in a nutshell, at that general speed (faster than a human can run)
our reaction times are severely impaired.
Technically, drivers are "out of control"...
What that means? basically every car on the road going over 35 is a potential BULLET.
Literally.
I happened to be in a carpool in highschool that left a 4 year old in a coma for 2 weeks because of this very FACT. 35 mph is not enough time to react to save a life that doesnt need to be destroyed.
Helper responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 2:35 pm
reply
"and to add, if you really have to convince people of the "wisdom of turning the other cheek"....then I think that is very symptomatic of.....
at least a level of ignorance or immaturity....something that really needs to be stressed, especially for METRO LA bicyclists."
people are people. since these rides are open invite - and since bicycle riders come from many different backgrounds, classes and education levels.... the wisdom will only be available in the same dose that exists in society.... somewhat rare....
"I have been known to, on occaision, snap pretty hard on motorists...and especially those cowards who like to throw shit out their windows or scream, but throwing down with drunken thugs is certainly not an option."
and thankyou for acknowledging that you yourself find that it's hard to turn the other cheek. well, I was there that night, and I tell you it was hard to watch drunken assholes pelting people with beer bottles and pottery and not yell out at them... no one is perfect. so we live and learn...
Roadblock responding to a
comment by Helper
07.21.09 - 2:50 pm
reply
the end.
now let's all go have a cheeseburger.
KiMS1 responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.21.09 - 2:52 pm
reply
Im gonna eat Hamburger Helper, purely out of nostalgia
md2 responding to a
comment by KiMS1
07.21.09 - 2:54 pm
reply
mmmmmmm, my anus is watering.
KiMS1 responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 2:58 pm
reply
i love the fact that we go into neighborhoods like NELA. I was so excited on the medieval ride, when we pulled up to the first liquor store that ever sold me booze when i was 15. I love those neighborhoods, just like i love all neighborhoods in LA.
in every neighborhood, you will find people who want to react to a beautiful thing like Ridazz with violence. it comes in the form of gang members in NELA, but it can also come in the form of some frat boy in Marina Del Rey throwing bottles from his balcony at Taco Tuesday. there are no "safe neighborhoods."
People shouldnt have to sign a waiver, but they should also be aware that these dangers dont cease to exist just because they're in a group. in some ways, the risks are abated and in other ways they are increased. i think it really comes down to talking to people.
it's easy to talk to everyone when you're in a group of 10-50 people. but it gets a little overwhelming when you're dealing with 150 people. on a typical MR ride, i don't even talk to all the people I already know! who has time to make sure they talked to all the new people?
so what's the solution? make announcements on the bullhorn? hand out flyers with the spoke cards reminding people that they are responsible for their own safety and the safety of others, to not confront people and to be kind?
tortuga_veloce07.21.09 - 3:11 pm
reply
do you really think telling people to be kind will work?
really... not joking..
there are no "safe neighborhoods."
Sorry... I still dont know what people mean when they say that...
Ive lived all over LA, and trust me... some neighborhoods are safer than others... but you didnt say that, so Im not putting words in your mouth... it may be that there are no safe neighborhoods, but there are safer ones....
md2 responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
07.21.09 - 3:16 pm
reply
i do think telling people to be kind will work. it might not work for everyone, but you can't measure success that way. i think a lot of people underestimate how many people look at the website or read the "rules of the ride." maybe printing the ROTR on the back of the monthly spoke cards would get that message out. that way new ridazz get a primer in what this community is about.
and yes, some neighborhoods are "safer" than others, but there are dangers everywhere. i personally believe that NELA is safer than Hollywood. At least I know how the gangs usually act. They always left me alone when i was growing up, and the older gang members were even nice to me. On the other hand, i had a friend that got robbed for his shoes at gunpoint in Beverly Hills.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 4:08 pm
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I agree that MR is getting younger but that probably not the biggest reason why the turn to more partying less riding. I often ride social rides that start in OC and the IE, some are not even on the MR calendar, that have the same theme; "let's ride to a place and get wasted". Many in the groups have not heard of MR yet they follow the same pattern.
This "scene" has gone from the underground and into the mainstream. Unfortunately, the original ideas/concepts did not come across. Just look at the mainstream bike shops who use to sell a couple of fixies in a month; they sell that in a day. Even the revered O20 looks and feels like big shop; remember sitting in the old O20 watching BMX videos and having a beer with Jim C. way pass midnight. Things are changing and we, who long for the good old days, will just have to sit it out. At the end only the diehards will remain. Its easy to get excited about cycling but keeping it going for 20, 30 or 40 years is the the true measure of passion.
sc_nomad07.21.09 - 4:09 pm
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crazy shit can happen anywhere.
coldcut responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 4:28 pm
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People shouldnt have to sign a waiver
As I mentioned before that's what happens on the few, organized rides that go on up here.
I already tried to post a ride on the local site, but then got bugged about legalities about a small, 20-30 person group taking up the side of a road cars travel in NASCAR-inspired packs on each day.
Eh, that's what happens after you find out 70% of the people on that site were teachers at your former high school.
bentstrider responding to a
comment by tortuga_veloce
07.21.09 - 4:28 pm
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"Crazy shit can happen anywhere"
What does that mean to you?
I think we've been more commonsensical than what you're expressing.
For example... Since C.S.C.H.A. (that should be a ride name)... should I have the same precautions at some dive bar with my girl, rather than at Scoops eating Ice Cream?
I think our general intuitions are sound (though some take their intuitions to the stereotypical or racial degree)... but in regards to safety, when you've lived in an area long enough....
In the back of my mind, i feel like either some of you have only lived in certain sections of LA or just havent run into any problems.
I just get this sense that we're experiencing two different realities.
md2 responding to a
comment by coldcut
07.21.09 - 5:00 pm
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i think my last comment was lost on everyone but myself. allow me to rephrase: i believe it's more likely that some asshole will try to hit and run me in beverly hills than a gang member will give me shit in NELA.
tortuga_veloce responding to a
comment by md2
07.21.09 - 6:22 pm
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I'm sooooo glad to see this thread...I was going to bail on MR because none of these issues were being discussed. It seems like everybody has a good handle on how to respect the communities we ride through and the people we interact with.
I like the idea of having people hang back for mechanical problems, giving out route slips, and keeping things positive. MR is one of the most diverse & accepting groups I've ever been a part of...glad to see everybody taking care of bizness. Peace.
sharpdan07.21.09 - 7:19 pm
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What are some good techniques for de-escalating conflict?
It sounds great in theory, but actually de-escalating a conflict effectively (without being a cowardly douchebag and then claiming you're a "pacifist" afterward) is more than a little tricky.
I definitely need to get better at this, but here are a couple of tips.
1. Do not lose your cool. Just because other people are getting all bent out of shape and acting threatening, doesn't mean you have to respond the same way. Just look at them calmly, and talk to them rationally. Testosterone poisoning is real, and when you're an uninvolved third party, it's hilarious to see how ridiculous guys look when they're challenging each other. So, if you're in this position, keep your hands open (don't make fists, unclench them if you've made them without realizing it), and calmly explain your side of the story.
2. See if the person confronting you has any more reasonable friends in the vicinity, and make eye contact with them as you talk. Many times, their friends will decide that it's not in anyone's best interest to attack somebody who's being reasonable, and help you de-escalate the conflict.
3. Keep talking. Do not be the first person to get physical. That never ends well. (This can get really funny if you're in a conflict where neither person wants to get physical, and you both realize it at the same time, at which point it's just a question of diplomatically moving away before you bust out laughing, so no one feels disrespected.)
Note: Sometimes none of this works, in which case it's time to bail as quickly and painlessly as possible, which is where pepper spray and your bike come in. But those are the LAST resort.
This is golden and should also be archived...um, somewhere where people will see it.
PC responding to a
comment by JB
07.21.09 - 10:09 pm
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Bit of a misnomer, innit? An attribution feature is what it is.
PC responding to a
comment by Roadblock
07.22.09 - 2:44 am
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