NOTE: All timestamps are in the future because WE are in the future. The care takers of Midnight Ridazz.com reserves the right to remove, edit, move or delete anything for any reason. None of the opinions expressed on these boards represent the Midnight Ridazz nor can anyone purport to speak on behalf of Midnight Ridazz.
I have a fantastic idea. Dress as YOUR DEFINITION OF A LADY for 2nd Friday in August, which is called Ladies' Night.Show everyone what you think a chick on a bike should look like - I want to see it! The heels, the hair, the bathing suit, the tits...I want it all.
While I do appreciate all the super sexy girls on bikes, I'd like it to be known that girls on bikes can also ride sans bikinis, heels, or surgically enhanced features...and still be hot.
you don't really ride a bike with real friends if that's who you're thinking of riding with. and if you do, you better be one of those girls or you're a dumb ass
meow responding to a comment by chefxian
07.21.09 - 4:07 pm
Why get your panties in a bunch? The pictures are of girls with bikes. This is 2009.
If these pictures offend you tough shit. I'm not degrading your movement. Grow up and grow some balls.
Listen, it's not a jealousy thing. Look all around you at the images of women in our media. They are often objectified or portray standards of beauty that at least I cannot achieve. Listen, I love to objectify a consensual partner just as much as the next guy and I too adore a beautiful woman. But when you are constantly bombarded by these images, it does weird things to your brain. I'm 4'10 and 130-145 pounds (It's fluctuated throughout my life), I have big legs, I have big curly hair, I have acne, etc. All my life I've struggled to reconcile my reality with the ideals presented to me. Those images say, "THIS IS WHAT SEXY IS THIS IS WHAT ATTRACTIVE IS IF YOU AREN'T THESE THINGS YOU AREN'T SEXY" and as a result, I suffered an eating disorder in high school, whittling down to 95 pounds. I wouldn't eat and I'd take laxatives and caffeine pills and spend nights dry heaving in the bathroom. I destroyed my hair chemically straightening and lightening it. I let a guy emotionally abuse me for years because I felt I was too ugly to get any other guy. I hated myself. I used to cut my arms and legs and hips and breasts with an Xacto knife. And I used to keep a little book of cut outs of pictures of women from magazines to "inspire" me (All that bullshit is true!) along with records of my caloric intake (A measly 800-1000 a day).
The unfortunate truth is that this experience is similar among many young women and increasingly among young men. It has taken me a very long time, but I feel better about myself, though I still falter. Sometimes if I watch too much TV or happen to look at a magazine, I'll feel those triggers.
So, that's why it hurts to see dudes respond with these images, because I'm sitting here feeling bad that I don't look like those women, and because it makes me feel like I just can't compete.
I mean, it's like when you start to look at too many bike mags and your own ride begins to feel inadequate, or when you show up to a ride and you catch some flashy bikes and you're like 'Mannn, I should just go HOME' when the truth is your bicycle is wonderful simply because it is a BICYCLE!
Fortunately, I do find that bike guys seem to have a much more versatile idea of attractive, which makes me feel more confident. There is no problem with the women in these photos - all bodies are beautiful - but it is comforting when people acknowledge variety and try to understand why being bombarded with these ideals can be potentially hurtful.
I mean, seriously guys, it's the reason why your girlfriend sometimes freaks out.
Aaanyway, no, I don't mind baring myself like that. As an artist, I put my heart on display, and you know, if I've helped someone understand something better or comforted someone else, then good!
HappyLand responding to a comment by spiraldemon
07.21.09 - 5:57 pm
Hey man, I never said it's easier for dudes. It's harder for men I think! And like I said, more and more men are dealing with similar issues. If you've likewise hurt, then you have my sympathy and love. If you've figured out a way to be 100% immune to these feelings, you must let me know your secret!
Life is hard, I totally agree, and it's the struggles that we encounter that make us interesting and strong.
But studies have shown that in developing countries newly exposed to Western culture, eating disorders have increased dramatically. Our media is sometimes harmful, but can also be changed.
Eh, but you're probs just trolling. In which case I admit my pwned-age and wish you many bridges to live under and catch children with!
HappyLand responding to a comment by snowcone
07.21.09 - 6:12 pm
how do i deal with it? hmm.... that's a hard question to answer
I have my own ideals and when I live up to them I am satisfied with myself. My fear of and the pain of disappointing myself motivates me, however, sometimes I am too emotionally exhausted to care.
snowcone responding to a comment by HappyLand
07.21.09 - 6:18 pm
Well yah, I think that ultimately that's what you have to do. I've learned to do likewise more and more...I look good for myself. Confidence is sexy. But - and maybe you are just a much stronger person than I am - every now and then I see these images and they get me down, ya know? Especially when like, that's the immediate response from guys to this.
Or maybe I am just missing something completely?
Although my diatribe was in response to our friend's question up there...it's an honest answer, whether or not I should GTFO for it is another question.
And if I really ought to GTFO then.... : {
HappyLand responding to a comment by snowcone
07.21.09 - 6:27 pm
Also, you remind me of my ex (No, not the bad one, the one I loved and foolishly let go of!). We used to argue gender stuff all the time. My beliefs were a lot more stiff before him, because of our discussions, I am no longer a man-hater.
HappyLand responding to a comment by snowcone
07.21.09 - 6:33 pm
when girls gawk at "hot guys" i will either:
a) agree the guy is good-looking at take comfort in the fact that he is probably an idiot or something. if he is like the total package then he deserves whomever wants him.
b) complain that the guy is hideous or something and proclaim the girl has terrible taste! a woman with bad taste is a total turn-off
but i don't care too much because i am happy with myself, and if when i see someone else i feel jealousy or something. then maybe there is something i need to work on improving about myself.
honestly... most people aren't completely concerned with true beauty and more on how you present yourself. i don't care if an ugly girl is wearing sexy clothing or a beautiful girl is wearing a burlap sack.
snowcone responding to a comment by HappyLand
07.21.09 - 6:36 pm
@Thegirlinglass, it's because they know they're going to have to deal with the sexist shit that spews from people like snowcone and chiefix. They're the reason more ladies don't come on rides.
you name the thread girls on bikes are pretty hott and complain when pictures of female models on bikes are posted. like really? now chefxian is sexist? HE DIDNT EVEN FUCKING SAY ANYTHING. I dont think any of those models are attractive and i dont think many of the guys here would either. fake tits and blonde hair has been out of fashion for awhile.
anyways, happyland your not like most girls. In highschool you were weak and looked for a quick fix. some people need to do stupid shit before they grow up. Blame our narcissistic society if you want but really its all on you and how you take it. your going to have to fucking deal with it because SEX SELLS GLOBALLY. its in our DNA to have sex and make babies. dont agree with commercial beauty TUFF. you dont see me yelling at you because i dont agree with your idea beauty. no only because you are bashing others.
Do we all get to yell sexism every time someone posts a picture of a model?
that was kind of a half thought rant. really i just think the hate on snowcone and chefixn was excessive. i hear girls talk about hot guys all the time, i get jealous i dont yell sexism.
im all for less sexism, there is enough of it in this world. i feel that our scene is only sexist in the fact that girls are trying to prove themselves. it sucks that they have to do that but most sports have always been male dominated. at leas they have done it well. there are some ladies here that can keep up with me all day and many more who can kick my ass out there.
hahahah. luckily im not trying. wanna here a funny story? one day when i was 4 my mom and i were in kinkos and he walked to us and told me "you dont know who i am little man but i know who you are." i was thoroughly freaked. i guess he went to college with my mom and she had set up his first show at a club she DJ so he knew her and of me.
larsenf responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
07.23.09 - 7:27 pm
Oh man, I must be bored. This is the second time today that I'm finding myself arguing with you logically impaired, irrational, little adults.
Sorry if I implied that they're sexist, if they're Ridazz, then they're likely not. Just saying that the things they're doing can, and will, be construed as sexist. Some people don't care, some people don't even notice. Some people like it, and some people don't.
I don't. Feel free to do whatever you want, you're part of the community too. I just think that some people will be turned off by what can be perceived as sexist shit.
And, hijacking the thread to promote the BikeroBabes, with that shit, isn't nice.
yea yea, im extremely bored to otherwise i wouldnt respond. i agree with you dak, that response was kind of half assessed. i still think happyland was a little harsh.
larsenf responding to a comment by the reverend dak
07.23.09 - 7:57 pm
I'm gonna have to back up HappyLand on this one, just cause I totally understand how she feels- *but* I can see where snowcone is coming from as well - in an ideal world everyone would shine with self-confidence and live up their own ideals as snowcone does, but sadly not everyone can do so. I really commend you HappyLand to have moved forward with your life like that, a lot of people haven't even taken the first step to accepting their inner and outer beauty. It's a sad world we live in when Dove is spearheading the campaign for real beauty, when that's a campaign that should start at home. Yeah it's true guys deal with the same hardships though perhaps in different contexts (like the boy that committed suicide for being called gay? And what about prostrate cancer, it doesn't get nearly half the amount of publicity and research funding breast cancer does but it's just as prominent and just as deadly). But that doesn't mean we should just 'suck it up' and deal. We're reaching out to those that are afraid or reluctant to talk about it, to the ones that feel maybe they should just keep it themselves when what they really need is a friend. But anyways, I digress.
Sorry but men do not go through the BS women have to endure in regard to the said topic.
Total and complete bullshit. Women go through way worse.
They have to deal with more sterotypes, more nasty comments, more media driven false aspirations, more assholes approaching them, more issues of safety, more abuse, more bias, more indifference, more retard male comments that reduce their struggles to being the kind the male experiences.
Total and complete bullshit.
I know for a fact, A FACT... Snowcone has never had to deal with the BS a women does at a bar, on a bike ride, or just walking home alone... let alone all else we can enumerate
DID I MENTION YOUR COMMENT IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT???
md2 responding to a comment by snowcone
07.23.09 - 9:38 pm
What kills me is I said nothing. So, I posted pictures of moderatley attractive women and you get upset. You ladies are digging deep. They were just pictures. I really don't think I am pepetuating strerotypes. I could not find any women with bikes and birkah photos although I tried.
See the thing that kills me is what hyprocrites you are. I am sure there were guys that wanted to go out with you yet they were not attractive to you and you came up with some lame ass excuse for not seeing them.
So save your righteous and stupid shit for your remedial term papers in womens studies and let the titties fly.
You either have no interest in understanding what women go through. hence if you have a girlfriend, you probably have only listened insofar as you knew you were getting laid..
I doubt you've ever dated someone with any real sense. If you've ever been there for a women and had to deal with the bullshit their endure at work, on the street, or most places, then you could have at least a minimal sense of what someone like Happyland is referring to...
Sure hot girls are hot... but at the end of the day, if you've ever been with a "hot" girl, you're in a for many surprises... the grass is always greener, right?
Your lack of understanding illuminates your lack of experience and your trite analysis is only something a guy who stares at pictures all day would infer.
This is all true, women do have alot more to put up with in society than men. But here in the US I feel they have the most equality than anywhere else in the world I traveled. It's far from a perfect society, but there's places far worst. Bottom line is we still got a long ways to go every where in the world.
User1 responding to a comment by md2
07.23.09 - 9:59 pm
Why do women get raped so often and easily there? Why is that they are not only raped by their own men, but men from outside the reservation?
Why is that the reseration is not able to prosecute outside US citizens for raping a native women on the reservation? Why is the US judicial system only allowed to try them? Why does the US judicial system fail to do so?
Why are more women raped than men?
Why are more young girls sexually abused?
Why are more young girls left to raise babies?
Why do you think we make a big deal over a women president? Other countries have women presidents--wow?
When did women start getting real rights? How many years ago? Wow!!!
Ever talk to your mom about some of the crap she has endured?
Ever had to protect your girl?
Ever had to deal with a bunch of creeps approaching your girl?
Ever wonder why fathers give their daughter away in marriage? Property?
Ever wonder why your girl asked her to walk her car at night? No she didnt want to spend that much more time with you, stud!!!
Ever wonder why you cant find as many pics of less sterotypical/modern notion of beauty online so easily?
Ever wonder why that "hot" girl thinks your lame?
Ever wonder why that girl with an IQ better than yours thinks your shallow?
Ever wonder why you probably bust a nut quicker than you can change a flat?
Fuck you guys... show a little more respect to the girls who ride with you and support your goofy, pimpled, sexually inadequate, shallow mother fuckers...
The same girls who treat you like your cute, when youre not, who still love you even though your balls dont match your u-lock's ambitions.
md2 responding to a comment by palucha66
07.23.09 - 10:14 pm
What you mean it's not relevant? You pointed out that women deal with, "more sterotypes, more nasty comments, more media driven false aspirations, more assholes approaching them, more issues of safety, more abuse, more bias, more indifference, more retard male comments that reduce their struggles to being the kind the male experiences." I said that I agreed with it and pointed out that there's this biase everywhere in the world. But here in the states we've progressed far more than other countries have. Is it a perfect world here in the states? Far from it.
How that is not adding to the discussion has got me stumped!
User1 responding to a comment by md2
07.23.09 - 10:17 pm
scotty niemet: i started looking deeper into the politics of violence and with that i started connecting the dots with sexism, !@#$?phobia, and abuse of power. the conclusion i came to was that if i was feeling all this frustration with how society treats people and controls out lives, i must try to dig at the root of it and not be like them. cliche as it seems, i consciously changed my actions and how i resolved conflict. so through others coming to the same conclusions in zines, late night talks, fest workshops, and talking in between songs, lots of us seemed to make our lives a bit more sensitive of others feelings and how our actions affected others. one of the pinnacle events of this new approach to what we as a community will do to address the maleness of the scene came with the rape accusation of scott, the bassist of the promise ring, at more than music fest. the fest was pt to a screeching halt for well over four hours. the open mic discussion forced the scene to face our personal views, our level of commitment and tested our attention spans. to be quite honest, looking back at events like that, we were 16-21 year olds discovering the amazing world of feminism and wanting to put what we have been learning into practice. i think it made people once again have to make a decision on what path they wanted to take within hardcore - do you want to go through the scene very confrontational at every show, or do you want to be productive and create a community you can feed off of each others energy? it pitted friends against each other on very static stances. i watched a couple of fests later, as two friends relationship/break up became a fest meeting topic as to if the cheating boyfriend should be "blacklisted" from attending the fest due to his bad choice in sleeping with another girl. he was deemed sexist and an abuser of women. i witnessed the takeover of the fest committee by people who had no real investment in the hardcore scene. these were people from the anarchist/radical politics scene. they exploited the failings of our scene, things we were trying to mend and understand, and shattered it. most of us allowed them in with welcoming arms, some of us walked away in disgust. that year of the womyn centered more than music fest was the year i lost hope in real productive change for the hardcore scene. i still feel this deep-seated male guilt that i "just didnt get it". i watched a huge venue be cut up into numerous "safe spaces" (womyn, people of color, queer, etc). i witnessed a boy who was not informed that he was on the blacklist be wheeled away on a dolly off the venues property to applause. i lost years of trust from dear friends because i truly disagreed with this fiasco of putting this type of politics into practice. i still have people who wont talk to me because i didnt agree with what happened. i spoke up and had three womyn with fingers to my face telling me that i had no say in any of this. the movement i felt we had died the day after that fest. we continued doing the fest and we made some strides to bring back a sense of community but by then it seemed the ties were being broken. the scene went in so many directions.
chris colohan (left for dead, the swarm, cursed) : the thing that made that era so unique was also the thing that killed it to death - the overload of dogma in the hands of such a young bunch of people. i dont think any of the things we were all talking about or fighting over were at all stupid or pointless. they were definitely more dramatized than they needed to be, but pointless? never for a minute. its just that no one accounted for time or space in any of it, or the possibility that the area for all that dialogue could itself just not be there one day. and college ended and i think it left a lot of people with nothing else they could do in light of their real lives but to resent it or write it off.
mike mowery (good clean fun, phyte records): issues are not black and white. its not so much about the specifics of issues like if yo spelled girl gyrl or woman as womyn. the most important thing is that females are respected, right? people would often get hung up on little rules.
because you implicitly suggest that somehow the progression means something comparatively speaking.
I disagree for two reasons at the moment:
1. It fuels the sense that its okay to treat women as our current state because, well, we're the best their is... no need to ask for more at the moment?
2. The comparison is meaningless. As a family whos some was beat/killed due to racial motives, if it hurts any less especially because the US has progressed more than other countries? Do you get the analogy? You have to take X for what X is. Its like justifying a terrorist attack because of the wrongs the US did to them... NO...NOTHING JUSTIFIES "IT"... you take evil on its own grounds wherever it shows up.
Does that make sense?
md2 responding to a comment by User1
07.23.09 - 10:25 pm
Ever notice that the women in these conversations are almost always more calm, reasonable, and willing to at least listen to the other point of view than the "feminist" men are?
"Why get your panties in a bunch? The pictures are of girls with bikes. This is 2009.
If these pictures offend you tough shit. I'm not degrading your movement. Grow up and grow some balls."
"why are girls threatened by hot women and how men are attracted to those hot women?"
"oh please... people use this argument over and over and over... guys deal with similar shit... this is life. if it's too hard then GTFO."
"seriously WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE.
you name the thread girls on bikes are pretty hott and complain when pictures of female models on bikes are posted. like really? now chefxian is sexist? HE DIDNT EVEN FUCKING SAY ANYTHING. I dont think any of those models are attractive and i dont think many of the guys here would either. fake tits and blonde hair has been out of fashion for awhile."
"anyways, happyland your not like most girls. In highschool you were weak and looked for a quick fix. some people need to do stupid shit before they grow up. Blame our narcissistic society if you want but really its all on you and how you take it. your going to have to fucking deal with it because SEX SELLS GLOBALLY. its in our DNA to have sex and make babies. dont agree with commercial beauty TUFF. you dont see me yelling at you because i dont agree with your idea beauty. no only because you are bashing others."
"Do we all get to yell sexism every time someone posts a picture of a model?"
"that was kind of a half thought rant. really i just think the hate on snowcone and chefixn was excessive. i hear girls talk about hot guys all the time, i get jealous i dont yell sexism."
---you call this a point of view?
I think my son has a healthier understanding of a woman's struggle with a thread like this... especially when a woman was merely trying to promote a ladies only night at a bike repair shop. If you think when she said "hot" it meant...the "hot" posted... are we really that shallow? Or do you think she meant all her women friends who would not objectify another woman as frequently and easily as "we" do.
give me a break... most of you seem smarter than that...
md2 responding to a comment by PC
07.23.09 - 10:55 pm
You missed my point. I wasn't making any comparison. I was more or less giving my view on the state of affairs from my perspective. This was gathered from my travels and reading. Focus on where we are in the state of sexual relations and where we need to go and you'll be following what I'm saying. I'm concerned about the world's relations of the sexes, but there's only so much you can do about it. I can be far more affective dealing with relations here in my community.
And this is completely off topic, but I have a slight problem dealing with people on this board I've never met. From seeing some of your postings, I have a feeling you like to keep it that way. There for I don't really have that much of an appetite conversing with someone on MR that I'll never be meeting. If this is not the case, then you have my apologizes.
User1 responding to a comment by md2
07.23.09 - 10:59 pm
Im saying its easy for people to feel comfortable with the status of their progress when they notice, experience, see, or whatever, that their progress is, well better...
it doesnt take away from the progress, but as you noted, every where has a long way to go... i dont disagree... i just didnt see why it was relevant, when the current state, as you note has a long way to go...
who cares if we've met or not... why would it even bother you? why would it matter... if you want ill post a pic... what would you like...? or should we have met before? what if we havent met... i guess the picture would help then, right?
Why think i need to relax?
Im chilling with a beer, my girl is out, and technically Im bored... but gained some interest in discussing this topic on a site I think has some influence... but I dont think my face has any relevance to the words.
md2 responding to a comment by User1
07.23.09 - 11:08 pm
True enough, but--as even you must surely know--a bit beside the point.
is that the best you could take from the thread?
No. As I said in fairly plain English in my previous post, the best that any of us have been able to take from the thread so far has come from women. Your angry spew, by contrast, does little to advance the cause that you seem to think you are espousing (indeed, it may even cause it to appear ludicrous to some eyes simply by being associated with your pissy namecalling and blanket generalizations). With that in mind, then, I would suggest that the best thing you can take from the thread is the following advice: shut the hell up, stand aside, and allow the women to speak for themselves.
PC responding to a comment by md2
07.24.09 - 3:20 am
So this thread is some kind of allegorical internet performance art, right? Meant to illustrate the reasons that Bikerobabes and Bicycle Bitchen exist in the first place? Where the guys start off by gawking at boobs, then shout at one another until all the women have gotten bored and left?
For the record, I never called anyone sexist, nor did I call the women in those photos ugly, in fact, I said that there's nothing wrong with them because all bodies are beautiful. I was merely responding to a question as to why women feel threatened by "hot women." I don't think anyone here is sexist, I think anyone who rides a bike is enlightened and progressive (Really!).
I don't think my high school behavior was the "easy way" out. Had I known there was another option, I would have taken it. I didn't know anything at all, just these really shitty feelings. I mean, duh, in retrospect it's totally lame, but it really hurt at the time, and you know how teenagers are. But those feelings were real and serious at the time.
Of course I want everyone to be happy, strong, and confident, and I agree that the way to do that is to live up to your own standards! Barring some of his behavior, I wish everyone could be like snowcone! <3 But I think that media can be hard for some folks to ignore, and it can eat at ya even when you try to avoid it, and it is something we can control.
Of course sex sells and I love sex! And you know, I love gorgeous fashion editorials and I even love the above photos because I am a photographer and a lover of beautiful things! These images are fantasies and they're wonderful. What I objected to was...I guess like the immediate and dominant response to a women's night.... And like yah, them's some sexy ladies on bicycles, but there are other kinds of sexy girls on bikes too! But again, my earlier post was in response to a single question!
And no,ruinedbyidiots, I didn't look like that at my computer. I think I was naked in bed because my apt has no AC and it's HOT, with my laptop on my lap frying my internal organs (I don't really need them), picking my nose and probably drinking a beer/stoned. Ya knooowww, gender is interesting and I can't resist these kind of conversations. We should talk in person about it!!!
Anywho, folks, love yourselves, love each other, do lots of drugs, have lots of sex, and ride your bicycle ; }
I took issue with the responses to your willingness to open up about your past, and current struggles.
I think you probably care deeply about this "community" and you felt comfortable sharing. I think its regrettable that it was easier for some to stand up to me, than to stand up for you.
I wasnt trying to speak for you nor women. I was speaking as a man to other men, trying to highlight our insensitivity and our bullshit notion that we struggle in the same way women have and do. If all your forum friends could point to was some name calling and generalizations, then I dont feel too bad.
Do men in general have a problem? Yes... Do all men? no....
I would take back generalizations in a heart beat. I figured most are more intuitive than that... but they find what they can argue about and thats that. Too bad they couldnt just have said... SHUT THE HELL UP, to the posters who reduced your personal story to "thats just life, deal with it".
If my foot was put in my mouth, then I'll put it up my ass too, jump on my monster cross rig and enjoy the santa monica mountains.
Overall, Ive seen how wonderful and kind many of the women in the MR community are to their fellow "men". Ive seen how supportive and how dependable you can be. MR would not exist if not for the women. Yet, when they had a chance to stand up for one of their women... well, they thought the fight wasnt theirs? No, best to shut up... Really? REALLY? Thats the BEST "we" can do? The best we can take from this thread?
Im sure ladies night at a repair shop is there for a reason, and the support you find, is exactly what women probably are not finding when the boys are around.
Good luck with your riding..be safe, be faster, and be healthy... try to fit some trail tires on the Dawes, raise your bars a bit...and jump on the trails... most can find me there.
Here to not being anonymous... updloaded the only photo i could find at the moment... my boy and I... ill leave MR alone, since I can respect the will of a "community".
I hadn't been to 63xc.com in quite a while (lost the link on my old harddrive and never looked back). Too bad about the way of the DoDo feelings. thanks.
"community" is a funny place, especially when the internet is involved.
dave responding to a comment by md2
07.24.09 - 8:24 am
Oh, it's not even a comfort thing sharing all that...I'm honest and open to a fault. Spend five minutes with me and you will know my entire life story, the length of my pubic hair (I'm working on a seventies porn look), my nerdy love of young adult sf/fantasy novels, and all about how my favorite thing to do is to smoke a bowl, rub one out, and play video games...although I don't have a tv or a system to play with anymore : {
Ah! The trails! I already have a Gary Fisher MTB with fat knobby tires! I've only hit the trails once, but I loved it, and I gotta do more of it.
At least these dudes are participating in the discussion and that's good! Although I think it's funny the words "sexist" and "sexism" jumped out of their own mouths.... ; )
I love men and I enjoy their company, and just by meeting and riding with guys I feel like I am teaching them a lot about strong women, and the attitude among MR guys is a lot better than - let's say - the frat boy population at USC....
You win folks over with education, kindness, honesty, and patience.
On a totally random note, this is my favorite song right now to sing while riding around on my bicycle!
Yes, it's actually quite brilliant! For those of you who don't want to read the whole thing, it goes something like:
A: "Women are more than just tits and ass! Women who ride and aren't afraid to get their hands dirty are hot!"
B: "YEAH! HOT BECAUSE OF TITS AND ASS! WOOO!"
A: "what? no..."
B: "YEAH! TITS AND ASS! Deal with it! WOOO!"
C: "Hey man, don't be a dick."
D: "Hey C, whats with the name calling?! You're way out of line! WAY OUT OF LINE"
The End.
canadienne responding to a comment by nathansnider
07.24.09 - 11:13 am
md2 thank you for all your comments. seriously. cereally. It is refreshing to hear a guy talk about women's issues in such an insightful way. I think a lot of MR women feel uncomfortable always explaining why something that was posted or said or done can be offensive. That might be why, like someone said before, we come off as more calm when talking about this stuff. Because we don't want to put ourselves out there again and again and argue a point that the majority of people usually dont understand, or ruin the guys "fun." It's nice to have guys call each other out from time to time.
Ayla responding to a comment by md2
07.24.09 - 1:39 pm
HappyLand, it's nice to know that you are able to understand my words. I know that I may be abrasive, but It's important that express myself properly. Anyone who is interested in understanding my perspective will not try to make assumptions about me and attack me for perceived qualities, and rather, respond to what i say directly. When I say that men and women face similar challenges brought upon by society, I did not mean they were identical--only that they were equal in magnitude. There are many standards against which men are evaluated by society before deeming them a true man. There are many expectations of men. One expectation is that we will protect women, and many men are more willing to help out women than men. Many feel that it's acceptable even when it is unwanted. Men know that it would be insulting to help another man unless he makes it clear he would be accepting of assistance. I think this is why many feminist men are more aggressive--as a way to defend women against me--some threatening man.
What you should see is that I do not treat women differently than I treat men. If you think I am sexist, you would be better of just calling me an asshole (but I try my best not to be one).
"This is all true, women do have alot more to put up with in society than men. But here in the US I feel they have the most equality than anywhere else in the world I traveled. It's far from a perfect society, but there's places far worst."
You haven't really traveled much then.
@larsen:
The issue here isn't so much about sexism as it is about media and pornography. It doesn't just cut across gender lines - did you notice any black models in the photos posted?
vladster responding to a comment by User1
07.25.09 - 12:00 pm
I am glad someone else noticed this besides me. The title and opening paragraph essentially invited this entire discussion .."go ahead, bring on the flak"...and perpetuates the myth that females should ride/work on bikes just to be hotter (which is essentially to please men), rather than because they actually love riding and working on bikes.
The "bring on the flak" statement confused me the most ...I don't understand why anyone would invite smack talking about females wrenching on bikes. No one here would diss that, everyone here wants more females on bikes, both men and women. I thought from the first time I opened this thread that the words were poorly chosen.
The author of this thread would have been well advised to title the thread "Bikerobabes" so that anyone interested would be more easily able to find this thread in the search function. The opening paragraph should have simply given the information about it, rather than perpetuating the objectification of women and then inviting "flak" about it. Now everytime a new female rider wants to learn more about female night at the Bikerowave, IF she even finds this thread, she will read all of this nonsense and most likely be turned off by the whole thing.
If someone else doesn't start a new, more appropriate thread for this, I will.
@happyland, I am not blaming you for the callous, stupid, insensitive and immature posts that truly sparked the debate, all I am saying is that it could have easily been avoided.
@the callous, stupid, insensitive and immature poster(s)... notice that the males participating (or not) in this discussion, the ones with wives, girlfriends, and the mature ones all the girls chase after, well they aren't posting pictures of half naked models who happen to be standing next to bicycles in a thread that is aimed at celebrating ACTUAL women riders, are they? Grow the fuck up.
@la duderina
Yaaah, what nathansnider said. After some consideration, it seemed that nothing could be written without eliciting this response, so I wrote what I wrote because well...I feel hot riding my bicycle. And I'd been thinking of a recent evening I spent working on my bike in nothing but my underpants in my kitchen while having myself a beer and it made me feel super sexy. But maybe it was the wrong approach. I definitely think you should post a thread with your own strategy, maybe I am missing something...and I'm curious to see how it will turn out!
@snowcone
Bb, when did I ever imply those things?! I may have teased ya, but I don't think you're sexist or an asshole. I've never even met ya! <3 <3 <3
It's an interesting discussion and a complex issue.
HappyLand responding to a comment by nathansnider
07.25.09 - 9:38 pm
Its true men do have a lot to deal with too. but to say the problems are equal is ridiculous. Because in this society most of the time woman are judged solely on Beauty. Men are still judged on how they look, they are also judged on how successful they are, and if you are successful enough your looks don't really matter. where woman it seems everything is judged on Beauty. look at news casters. why do so many woman news casters have fake breasts. I mean what the hell do tits have do do with the news.
great another thread for women to complain about how much they are victimized.
1 a skirt while riding a bike(especially with no underwear) is bound to raise up.
2. a cut up t-shirt with your boobs hanging out while riding a bike is a bouncing experience
3. thong underwear with daisy duke type shorts while riding a bike? hellllooooooooo!!!!
I could go on but i'll stop there to say that if a women is upset about being objectified. Look in the mirror before you leave the house.
If we can see your ass, boobs, and your kitty kat hanging out, u can best believe someone will be looking and it wasn't the people looking who dressed you.
Ain't saying there's anything wrong with objectification. In fact, it's sexy with someone you want to have the fucky times with. I objected solely to the limited images of attractive women and the lack of variety.
And for the record, you can dress downright Amish and men will still harass ya. It happens to me all the time and I dress like a boy. One time I was wearing pants, a button down shirt, and a sweater, and some fella in a car harassed me as I was walking. When I told him I wasn't interested he said, "IS IT CAUSE I'M BLACK?!" I mean...really? It's cause I AM NOT INTERESTED.
Why don't boys run around in tiny tight shorts? Oh wait, they do on bikes. I wuv a man in Spandex (And the nice rider butt that accompanies it). ^^
HappyLand responding to a comment by ridetime
07.26.09 - 5:36 pm
" She derves to be raped" argument? Are you Fucking Serious?
Guys hassle you on the street when you dress like a guy? So what!
Maybe the guy thought you were a nice person and he was going to run game.
How do people meet? How do you meet people?
You object to the pictures of the attractive women? Get better looking and maybe we can post some.
Nice comment about who you would and wouldn't sleep with based on replies. Way to perpetuate the rape argument.
You are a CLASSY girl and I can't wait to cat call you on your fixie riding to your womens studies class.
chefxian responding to a comment by HappyLand
07.26.09 - 10:03 pm
All of the counties you mentioned fall short of having gender equality. Some more than others. BTW, this is where I am comparing and raking countries, since they are being listed. Start out with the most equal of the bunch and work our way back. Equality is referenced mostly in regards to political power and economic power.
Sweden is by far has the most parity. They're fairly equal in parliament, education, and representation in professions. They do fall short in equal pay, female owned businesses, and representation in board of directors of the private sector, to name a few. In my travels there, I felt it was the most progressive in the realm of equality out of all the European countries I visited.
Netherlands comes pretty close to tying Sweden. "The difference between what men and women earn remains large: on average, women earn a little less than 50% of the earnings generated by their male counterparts in the workforce."
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2005/02/feature/nl0502102f.htm
Germany is not doing too bad either when compared to the two above. But it does show a larger disparity of pay between the sexes. Also about 15-20% less representation in parliament than Sweden.
Here's where there's a noticeable drop in the equality of the sexes. Gender empowerment measure of all the rest falls to 26 for Cuba and 57 for China. Nicaragua and China didn't even rank. Sweden, Netherlands, and Germany ranked 6, 9, and 22 respectively. Sources for this info is at
http://hdrstats.undp.org/buildtables/rc_report.cfm I couldn't link the results. Wish there was some way of saving the table, but not where it's easy to display.
From this page above you can build your table and pick, theme - AND ACHIEVING EQUALITY FOR ALL WOMEN AND MEN, table - gender empowerment measure, and finally pick all the indicators.
Other resources,
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/index.htm
http://hdr.undp.org/en/
http://www.wikigender.org/index.php/New_Home
Everywhere you read on the above sources all state pretty much the same thing. The female population is under represented in the work force in the upper management position, under represented in political positions, and under represented in higher degrees from educational institutions. Yes progress is being made in many parts of the world, but they're still under represented.
About here is when most people accuse me of being negative and a downer...... so I just want to say, I dream of ponies every night! I dream of riding ponies in a big field full of flowers and butterflies all the time! :-)
User1 responding to a comment by vladster
07.27.09 - 1:59 pm
The U.S. has pretty much eliminated the gender pay gap, at least according to a study commissioned by the Department of Labor (and then quickly suppressed for reasons that remain unclear).
"Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers."
JB responding to a comment by User1
07.27.09 - 2:10 pm
The only thing I learned from reading this was that HappyLand like to have lots of sex and smoke pot. Women should pause for a minute and embrace this kind of mentality. We need more HappyLand post's in here...
I used to really love having sex, which meant I had a lot of it, but times have indeed changed, and I've been suspended in a weird emotional funk for the past three months and I just can't get it up anymore : {
I still love smoking though.
And out of respect for Bertha, who is apparently my doppelganger (Or I am hers), I shall add no more to this!!!
HappyLand responding to a comment by TIMESARECHANGING
07.27.09 - 2:40 pm
Not to belittle the subject, but it just seems everyone on here is looking for some cause to take up. Relax people. Both men and women. Everyone gets objectified... deal with it.
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Ridazz Roulette!
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o hai
ml
love
love
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poly
POP!
try again
different
lop
GIVE ME A GGGGGG!!!!!!
Hottest Girl on a bike I can think of...
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While I do appreciate all the super sexy girls on bikes, I'd like it to be known that girls on bikes can also ride sans bikinis, heels, or surgically enhanced features...and still be hot.
This is more ur style then Joker--->>
polo ftw
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Why get your panties in a bunch? The pictures are of girls with bikes. This is 2009.
haha
Have funnn tonight.
TO ALL THE GIRLS ON MR>>>>>>
That's it, Larsenf. You are not going to be getting laid.
midnight ridazz stock response meme ® 
I shouldn't even get started. I have so many sexy pics of women and bicycles.
" She derves to be raped" argument? Are you Fucking Serious?
vladster,
The only thing I learned from reading this was that HappyLand like to have lots of sex and smoke pot. Women should pause for a minute and embrace this kind of mentality. We need more HappyLand post's in here...
OMG!!! I love to color when I get sad!