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Thread Box:
BIKEROBABES
Thread started by shadylane at 06.8.09 - 1:31 pm

HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE is now a WOMEN AND TRANS ONLY NIGHT on the Westside!

PLEASE NOTICE it begins tomorrow night!

@ the BIKEROWAVE

Every 2nd & 4th Tuesday of the Month

6:30pm - 10pm

Please Spread the WORD!! TELL ALL GIRL FRIENDS, MOTHERS, GRANDMOTHERS, DAUGHTERS, and males that might mistakenly go to Bikerowave Tuesday June 9th. (TOMORROW)


reply


WOOHOO!!!



HappyLand
06.8.09 - 1:50 pm

reply


i'm going to try and attend. both my bikes could use a little love.



tomato
06.8.09 - 1:56 pm

reply


TRANS?
VEST?




X-Large
06.8.09 - 2:31 pm

reply


do it in a dress!



tomato
06.8.09 - 3:18 pm

reply


If a man comes in a dress, I will have no choice but to make love to him.

(Yah, that's me waving my freak flag)



HappyLand
06.8.09 - 4:47 pm

reply


Just because this happened so last minute...


BOYS! Remember that Bikerowave will be closed to you Tuesday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hehehheehe



shadylane
06.8.09 - 11:38 pm

reply


oh the pain of having a final exam the next morning.



Gav
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 12:44 am

reply


i would love to see some men show up... that way i can tell them that they have to leave.



deboRAWR
06.9.09 - 12:53 am

reply


Nice!!

I'm clear across town, but nice!!



alicestrong
06.9.09 - 5:28 am

reply


i would love to see men show up... tell you that they are trans, and then you still tell them to leave.

i hate this reverse discriminatory bullshit.

FIRST COME FIRST SERVED <---fair



snowcone
responding to a comment by deboRAWR
06.9.09 - 8:50 am

reply


cross dressing != transgendered

(!= is not equal to)



snowcone
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 8:52 am

reply


@snowcone:

so...... are you a BIKEROWAVE regular? gosh, jeesh! you were at the party on Saturday night, weren't you. actually you always there, every day, huh. this one night a week is really gonna cramp your style, is it?

wow.



bondink
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 9:11 am

reply


Trust me, I know.

Gender identity/expression/biology is a really complicated and personal thing. I personally struggle with my own conflicting sense of identity/expression/biology. I am "biologically" female (Whatever THAT even means), identify as mostly female, and often express myself in a little more "masculine" way.

I don't think that men are going to show up just to show up and be brats. I think that people will respect the space, which is intended as a "safe" one where women will feel comfortable learning about and working on their bicycles. You have to put some labels on it for guidance, but it's understood that there is a vast range of what "gender" means to a person. The night is not intended to exclude, it is intended to encourage those who may feel uncomfortable around (straight?) men to come wrench (And you must admit that some women may be put off by men in the shop, which creates an inequality).

Transgender is not the same as cross-dressing, and not even all cross-dressing is the same. Some straight men cross-dress and have sex with women. Some gay men cross-dress and have sex with men. Some straight men live as women and identify as women. Some gay men cross-dress and identify as men. Etc etc etc.

I was simply expressing my fondness for "straight" men in dresses...which I must admit I find most sexually satisfying and rather difficult to find, unfortunately. Woe is me : {

The matter will be treated with utmost sensitivity and respect.



HappyLand
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 9:18 am

reply


More on point than my response, hahah!

>.<



HappyLand
responding to a comment by bondink
06.9.09 - 9:20 am

reply


i don't see why it matters if i go or not. discrimination is what it is whether or not i go.

bicycle kitchen does the same thing, and i've been there. it's still bullshit.



snowcone
responding to a comment by bondink
06.9.09 - 9:22 am

reply


--->>> Happyland - your comment was awesome! why SIRENS exists.



bondink
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 9:25 am

reply


(looks at feet, slaps head, puts hands in pockets)

- you totally missed my point.



bondink
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 9:26 am

reply


"I was simply expressing my fondness for "straight" men in dresses...which I must admit I find most sexually satisfying and rather difficult to find, unfortunately. Woe is me : {"

;] i had a feeling you knew. that's why i made my comment very concise... not necessarily saying that you were implying it, but more so to show there is a distinction.


I understand the rest of what you are saying, but there are few MEN who are 100% masculine... where is the cutoff for transgendered people?

I'M SORRY, YOU ARE TOO MUCH OF A MAN TO BE HERE!!!

that's why it can never be fair. I do not consider myself 100% masculine, but they won't let me go unless i write them a persuasive essay explaining to them what qualities of mine are feminine.

what about a biologically female person who is 100% masculine? this person considers himself a man, but you consider him transgendered because he is biologically female. Can he go in or can he not?

and that's why this system will never be fair!



snowcone
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 9:32 am

reply


Up until a 2 months ago nobody could use the Bikerowave on Tuesday. Now we're open 2 tuesdays a month for women, and two or three tuesdays a month for everyone. So if anything, your opportunity to use the Bikerowave has been increased lately.

To summarize:
Days of the month guys can use bikerowave: 18
Days of the month guys can't: 2.




stevestevesteve
06.9.09 - 9:32 am

reply


Then go to the Kitchen. We are doing this our own way. Please respect our space. It's only every other Tuesday and I hear that patience is a virtue.

If you would like to start a men only night, please feel free to. Come volunteer, present it to the board, select a night (Perhaps the opposite Tuesdays?), and I will respect your space. Start a curly-hair night. Start an under 5'11 night. Start an orange bicycle night. Start a fixie night, a MTB night, a BMX night.

Since you are so interested in equality, I imagine you must be a feminist. If so, please take a moment to read this insightful article on how men can be better feminists/allies/partners.

Even I make mistakes as a feminist. If you like, we can meet up and have a discussion regarding...just not tonight at Bikerowave.





HappyLand
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 9:33 am

reply


I completely understand how you feel. I love(d) someone who feels likewise...he is not comfortable around "manly" guys and while he may be more "feminine," he does still identify as "male" and "straight." I agree that it is complicated, but that's why it's beautiful, so a little queer like myself can find someone who compliments me.

Let's just try an experiment then, yah? Let's see how it goes as "women" only, yah? Then we'll go from there. Maybe you and I can start a "gender variant" night and revel in our non-traditional gender expressions/identities! I think that'd be totally cool tbqh!

So just give us a chance to experiment, okay?



HappyLand
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 9:40 am

reply


I need to hit up Sirens one of these nights!!!



HappyLand
responding to a comment by bondink
06.9.09 - 9:41 am

reply


please respect my right to say it's unfair.

i'm not a feminist.

i'm a humanist and an individualist.

i also believe people are allowed to feel uncomfortable much to often--it's encouraged and i don't like it. when women isolate themselves so much from everyone else, then they exacerbate the problems. Some men may forget how to behave around them naturally because they are not used to it. Some men may come off as creepy merely because many woman are paranoid. Yes, there are some predatory men out there, but they wouldn't be as aggressive if the women grew some balls and learned how to deal with them.



snowcone
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 9:43 am

reply


i think every night should be a female-friendly, gay-friendly, trans-friendly, man-friendly, just in general people-friendly... and while we are at it... make it animal, plant, and just everything friendly too!

i wouldn't mind discrimination toward haters ;]

experiment away!



snowcone
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 9:46 am

reply


then make it happen and quit putting negativity in a positive thread. there are other threads for that - search.





bondink
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 9:54 am

reply


how am i being negative? i want to bring and keep people together and not divide them.



snowcone
responding to a comment by bondink
06.9.09 - 9:56 am

reply


then create a thread and a night at a bike shop to do that. respect the work, time and effort that has gone into BIKEROBABES and step off of their thread. by your negativity, any newcomers that read this thread will be turned off and not want to show up. thus a negative impact on the positive.





bondink
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 10:02 am

reply


did somebody say orange bike night?!



angrytoaster30
06.9.09 - 10:04 am

reply


you are just attacking me because you don't like the views i'm expressing. this has nothing to do with respect, and i am not being negative. if any would be new-comers abstain from going, it might be due to the negativity you have expressed.



snowcone
responding to a comment by bondink
06.9.09 - 10:06 am

reply


ur fighting an uphill battle

u should put ur two cents into the 1902 thread.

thats more fun anyway.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha






KiMS1
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 10:08 am

reply


>>>i think every night should be a female-friendly, gay-friendly, trans-friendly, man-friendly, just in general people-friendly... and while we are at it... make it animal, plant, and just everything friendly too!<<<

I agree with this!!!

Our society, however, has created an unfortunate gender (Insert any other minority) inequality. It permeates our media, our culture, our movies, our SATs, our advertising, our families, our schools, our government...whether it is intentional or not, our women are taught they can't do this, they can't do that, men are better. Take a moment to really examine our media, especially. I agree it's changing, but more often women are objectified and their insecurities exploited in advertising (Not exclusively, but largely). I really really wish there wasn't a need for a women only night. I wish that a woman could walk into a shop full of lads and work on her bicycle without feeling uncomfortable. I wish that the number of girls and boys in the shop was equal.

I've always been a bit of a tomboy, but at times, men have made me feel uncomfortable to the point of hatred (Whether their threats were real or imagined). Of course I had to make an effort to see beyond that, but men need to be doing things to help improve conditions for our women as well. Like allowing them one night to come work on their bicycles!!!

And if you're a humanist, you're inherently a feminist, so there!!!



HappyLand
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 10:09 am

reply


Orange and pink bicycles ONLY night every Saturday night at my house, har har har!!!

Shit, I'd have to kick my blue bike out >.<



HappyLand
responding to a comment by angrytoaster30
06.9.09 - 10:10 am

reply


this thread is making me gassy



KiMS1
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 10:11 am

reply


Chicks like to do shit in groups just as much a guys do. Theres always an outnumber of dudes to girls at the bikerowave and guys would probably be just as apprehensive to go if there were an influx of chicks almost a hundred percent of the time. Stop bickering and let the girls have their night.



angrytoaster30
06.9.09 - 10:13 am

reply






_iJunes
06.9.09 - 10:15 am

reply


the same arguments that were made in the thread for that african-american only "freedom ride" can be used here, just change things about race to things about sex.

everyone loses in the end.



ruinedbyidiots
06.9.09 - 10:19 am

reply


you obviously don't know me. i don't outright attack anyone. so, i'll let that slide. my points are valid and clear.

don't throw negativity into a thread.

if you don't like something - then make something new and amazing. create and make it happen.

it's kind of an unstated rule, you just don't go being negative in a thread - you create a new one and have the debate on the issue there - that way you do not negatively impact the event.





bondink
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 10:20 am

reply


initially you said the lady's night at the kitchen was bullshit which i think we can all agree is a negative approach to an issue which you later raised clearly and concisely.

so it seemed like you were being negative at first but then after reading all your post you do come across as sincere (albeit with a hint of trollness)

as much as i can speak for bitchen (all female night @ kitchen)....it is a female friendly space- period.........the "level" of masculinity that they allow is left to their arbitrary discretion and what they feel comfortable with.

is it perfect, no. but neither is sexual identity. and their of course have been times when some females have left because it was either too "male" or too "gay". so there you go not even females can agree with what is femininity.

the one thing im going to agree with you is that it should be a female freindly space all the time....hey guess what it is. my personal policy is that the kitchen is a community space (meaning varying types of people) and any dumbass behavior/language will get yo ua warning then the boot.

some people may be taking issue with your points because its not nice to stand up and volunteer for these beliefs (and in my case be threatened when im kicking someone out) and have someone question your sincerity and commitment to them.



bicioso
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 10:22 am

reply


PMS maybe?

Don't even talk to me about gas!!!

Have you ever been to this spot in Silver Lake called Malo? On Monday nights they have $1-$2 tacos of the most exquisite variety (I mean, a fucking deep fried potato and cheese taco?!). My friends and I went last night to witness the Tacopocalypse and I've easily become a biohazard.

<3 <3 <3



HappyLand
responding to a comment by KiMS1
06.9.09 - 10:24 am

reply



it's kind of an unstated rule, you just don't go being negative in a thread

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

boppa de boopi?



_iJunes
06.9.09 - 10:26 am

reply


I was waiting for you to get here : }



HappyLand
responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
06.9.09 - 10:27 am

reply


the greater los angeles bicycle scene is now the overly pc hardcore scene of the mid 90s (but with worse music).



ruinedbyidiots
06.9.09 - 10:27 am

reply


teh thred is ded.



_iJunes
06.9.09 - 10:30 am

reply


gas-MS

i like my valley taco joints. usually i frequent tacos michoacan. they still have the dollar tacos and three dollar burritos. prices havent changed since 1998.

after growing up in the greater los angeles area, ive become quite comfortable in the valley.

its nice and quiet, no kooky fake people (or less i should say), the streets are cleaner and safer here, i can walk down the street and say hello and people will respond positively, people from the valley are usually people from LA proper that got sick of it all the midwestern/east coast transplants, no pretentious bike people, just folks who ride bikes, its easier to make friends in this nice warm crater of los angeles county.

its nice out here.

with that said, if ur sick of all the LA bullshit, come out to TNS tonight.

we'll get you drunk and make you feel at home.




KiMS1
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 10:33 am

reply


I'm totally down, tbh. Last night I was just thinking how sick of LA I've gotten, even though I love this city. I rode through the valley on an 80 mile training ride a few weeks ago and was impressed with its infrastructure. I got a bad taste for the valley after going to school in Calabasas (UGH)...but that's not really valley proper, is it?

Is it a weekly ride?



HappyLand
responding to a comment by KiMS1
06.9.09 - 10:41 am

reply


that's why you have to live in east la... so it's a little dirtier. i love dirt.



snowcone
responding to a comment by KiMS1
06.9.09 - 10:46 am

reply


you went to calabasas!

hahah

i went to el camino.

when did u graduate?


it's every tuesday except for the first tuesday of the month. SFVCM has that night and we join up with those folks.

we start off in northridge.

at the beginning we decide which direction we want to go by asking everyone and taking a vote. south, north, west, east, southwest, etc.

its a fairly mellow ride but we've been having complaints that we go too fast.

it will be a cake walk for you if ur 80 mile training rides.


in my opinion, what makes TNS so great is that EVERYONE is a regular. same faces every week and i feel that we have pretty interesting/fun routes, whether it be to local lakes, dams, fwy overpasses, etc.

come on out and have a beer or two!



KiMS1
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 10:53 am

reply


Actually...worse. I went to Viewpoint. Don't hate me. I hated it there. I graduated in 2003...fuck, it's beginning to feel farther and farther away.

This Tues I am Bikerobabing, maybe next Tues? Oh wait, there's Tacos. And then more Babing. TOO MANY RIDES. I'll let ya know though.

You guys end early enough for me to catch the train home? I have work at 6am. Gross, I know.

I wouldn't mind a bit of a hustle >: D





HappyLand
responding to a comment by KiMS1
06.9.09 - 11:09 am

reply


ummm, i think the last train is @ 11:30

u could always cut out early.

6am is pretty rough



KiMS1
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.9.09 - 11:18 am

reply


last train leaves noho at 12:47 or something like that.




_iJunes
responding to a comment by KiMS1
06.9.09 - 11:21 am

reply


the arguments in this thread make my MANLY parts hurt!!!! it seems like the same shit that was said about the "freedom ride" is being said here. People do not understand...think beyond your small ass bubble and your views and opinions and think light years ahead of yourselves. The things that we do now affect our future. The freedom ride was made so people like myself can feel comfortable in the future...it is tottally fucked up that we live in a world we consider so "advanced" but our minds have yet to reach the level our technology has! I also dislike the fact that it has to be a women only night but society and this sexist country has programmed our women into thinking they cannot feel, or they need a fuckin man to work on a bicycle. So until then create a fuckin night where our women in this bike community and even those who do not identify with the midnight ridazz can begin to feel comfortable. I feel so fuckin cliche but it is true...we are the future....sometimes we are too smart for our own good...we argue these "valid" points that may be true from your point of view but not for all... PROGRESS...let the women have 1 night to themselves to where they can get comfortable wrenching...

Fuck man!!! BIKEROFUCKINBABES wrench the fuck on!!!



pretti*ugli
06.9.09 - 11:38 am

reply


"Yes, there are some predatory men out there, but they wouldn't be as aggressive if the women grew some balls and learned how to deal with them."

dunno about you, but i like girls that don't have balls.




asparagus
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 11:43 am

reply


All I know is that every 2nd and 4th Tuesday at the BikeRoWave is now known as BikeRoBabes starting today. I think this was overdue, and I am glad it is happening. Maybe when the ratio of males to females in the bike scene will even out, a night like BikeRoBabes won't be necessary.

Snowcone is free to stage a sit-in if he truly wants to protest the segregation :)



jericho1ne
responding to a comment by pretti*ugli
06.9.09 - 11:54 am

reply


the future? right.. let's continue segregation NOW so that in the FUTURE we can all live together as one big happy family? that makes no sense

there is no future, there is only the present... let's start living how we want to live right now and stop waiting for some future that will never come.

i'm not stopping or attempting to stop anyone from doing anything. anyone who wants to do hir own thing is free to and is going to do so even if i don't think ze should.



snowcone
responding to a comment by pretti*ugli
06.9.09 - 11:57 am

reply


i thought this thread was dead... just let it die already



snowcone
06.9.09 - 11:59 am

reply


blah dead indeed...im going to enjoy my pan dulce and cranberry juice



pretti*ugli
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.9.09 - 12:01 pm

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whats the women/womyn equivalent to cycling?



ruinedbyidiots
06.9.09 - 12:17 pm

reply


what?



pretti*ugli
responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
06.9.09 - 12:20 pm

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Women only rides ae for one reason only. Girls want to go on a ride where they can burp and fart without getting caught. Period.





stillline
06.9.09 - 3:25 pm

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Hi Matt! You're wrong about that. I have no problem burping in front of my friends.You boys are just plain silly with you're assumptions and complaints and crying.

This isn't a form of discrimination against you (men), it's a form of empowerment and fun for us. Being in a more fem-friendly environment encourages us to learn more about bikes and do more of the mechanical stuff ourselves without some dude taking over cuz they can do it better or faster (get your hands off my bike!) How many times have guys not let me fix my own stuff? Then when I need help, I get the "I thought you wanted to do it yourself" junk.

Women in the bike community spend plenty of time being the minority. So what? Well, sometimes we get tired of the sausage fest. Sometimes we just want to hang out without being subjected to boy-humor (at least I do). Sometimes we just want to come together and have fun together.




kryxtanicole
responding to a comment by stillline
06.9.09 - 3:58 pm

reply


yep.



coldcut
responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
06.9.09 - 4:06 pm

reply


Yikes! I was joking. But lets fight about it anyway.





stillline
06.9.09 - 4:08 pm

reply


Thursday night, dtla polo grounds. xoxo



kryxtanicole
responding to a comment by stillline
06.9.09 - 4:14 pm

reply


Torpedos away.....



stillline
06.9.09 - 5:30 pm

reply


I like farting on boys.



imachynna
06.9.09 - 5:32 pm

reply


i would like to give successful troll points on snowcone today.

because you guys are all arguing about absolutely nothing.



_iJunes
responding to a comment by imachynna
06.9.09 - 5:34 pm

reply


It's not a big deal, instead of going in and helping my girlfriend put her bike together on Tuesday we're going to go tonight (Wednesday instead).

Sarah as for you never attacking people, get off your high horse. It's made of wood and doesn't seem to be taking you anywhere fast.



franz
06.10.09 - 12:55 pm

reply


I have to say I had a very pleasant time last night, despite some of our strange encounters.

I got to quietly work on a bicycle, teaching myself mechanics through trial and error and experimentation without some dude trying to help me out or take over.

That's not to say I ain't fond of you dudes, but it was a nice space.

<3 <3 <3



HappyLand
06.10.09 - 1:27 pm

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wow this thread...

now i really don't want to check out bikerobabes. too much estrogen. too much drama.



tomato
06.10.09 - 2:00 pm

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I enjoy it when girls get together.



Joe Borfo
06.10.09 - 2:11 pm

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Colbert on 'reverse discrimination': everyone knows there's only one correct way to discriminate.

I agree with your point of view except the part where you are making the case to people (men and women organizing this) who are making the struggle to level the playing field.. Hence undermining the issue and your points at the same time.






Mooncake
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 3:17 pm

reply


well... that means the playing field isn't level at all.



snowcone
responding to a comment by Mooncake
06.10.09 - 3:26 pm

reply


There are ideals, perceptions, and empirical data.



Mooncake
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 3:28 pm

reply


yeah, that's a good solution



snowcone
responding to a comment by franz
06.10.09 - 3:28 pm

reply


it's a well known fact that "empirical data" can be manipulated to show anything you want. until you are personally affected by reverse discrimination in a negative way, you will not understand.



snowcone
responding to a comment by Mooncake
06.10.09 - 3:31 pm

reply


i feel uncomfortable



Joe Borfo
06.10.09 - 3:32 pm

reply


why?



snowcone
responding to a comment by Joe Borfo
06.10.09 - 3:33 pm

reply


Oh my god, HOW did I miss this thread?! This is my kind of discussion!!! Wait, can I stir up the hornets' nest more, and get the debate started again? RARRRRRRRR!

Okay, I won't. I haven't read absolutely every post in the thread, and I'm sure there are others that made excellent points, but I definitely want to say:

<3<3 bondink

<3<3 HappyLand

<3<3 bicioso

<3<3 kryxtanicole





Ms. Stephanie
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 3:38 pm

reply


Oh, and one more:

<3<3 i_junes, for the Family Guy reference.



Ms. Stephanie
06.10.09 - 3:40 pm

reply


this is the women becoming as helpful as the men have been without the men further helping by the women helping each other



Mooncake
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 3:42 pm

reply


so what you are saying is that women can't handle themselves around men, and only when the men are out of the picture can the women finally help themselves? i don't know. there are plenty of strong women out there that don't need anyone's help.



snowcone
responding to a comment by Mooncake
06.10.09 - 3:47 pm

reply


you spelled my name wrong



_iJunes
responding to a comment by Ms. Stephanie
06.10.09 - 3:50 pm

reply


sure why not.



Mooncake
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 3:50 pm

reply


divisionary politics.



coldcut
06.10.09 - 3:53 pm

reply


LOLSNOWCONEDOUSTFU?

you seriously have wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time wasting your keystrokes trying to make valid points against people who come on just to invalidate your validity.






_iJunes
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 3:53 pm

reply


i haz problem



snowcone
responding to a comment by _iJunes
06.10.09 - 3:56 pm

reply


they don't invalidate what i say really... they sort of make my point stronger



snowcone
responding to a comment by _iJunes
06.10.09 - 3:57 pm

reply


Must.. not.. make.. post!



Joe Borfo
06.10.09 - 4:02 pm

reply


@_iJunes Sowwy.



Ms. Stephanie
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 4:02 pm

reply


scotty niemet: i started looking deeper into the politics of violence and with that i started connecting the dots with sexism, !@#$?phobia, and abuse of power. the conclusion i came to was that if i was feeling all this frustration with how society treats people and controls out lives, i must try to dig at the root of it and not be like them. cliche as it seems, i consciously changed my actions and how i resolved conflict. so through others coming to the same conclusions in zines, late night talks, fest workshops, and talking in between songs, lots of us seemed to make our lives a bit more sensitive of others feelings and how our actions affected others. one of the pinnacle events of this new approach to what we as a community will do to address the maleness of the scene came with the rape accusation of scott, the bassist of the promise ring, at more than music fest. the fest was pt to a screeching halt for well over four hours. the open mic discussion forced the scene to face our personal views, our level of commitment and tested our attention spans. to be quite honest, looking back at events like that, we were 16-21 year olds discovering the amazing world of feminism and wanting to put what we have been learning into practice. i think it made people once again have to make a decision on what path they wanted to take within hardcore - do you want to go through the scene very confrontational at every show, or do you want to be productive and create a community you can feed off of each others energy? it pitted friends against each other on very static stances. i watched a couple of fests later, as two friends relationship/break up became a fest meeting topic as to if the cheating boyfriend should be "blacklisted" from attending the fest due to his bad choice in sleeping with another girl. he was deemed sexist and an abuser of women. i witnessed the takeover of the fest committee by people who had no real investment in the hardcore scene. these were people from the anarchist/radical politics scene. they exploited the failings of our scene, things we were trying to mend and understand, and shattered it. most of us allowed them in with welcoming arms, some of us walked away in disgust. that year of the womyn centered more than music fest was the year i lost hope in real productive change for the hardcore scene. i still feel this deep-seated male guilt that i "just didnt get it". i watched a huge venue be cut up into numerous "safe spaces" (womyn, people of color, queer, etc). i witnessed a boy who was not informed that he was on the blacklist be wheeled away on a dolly off the venues property to applause. i lost years of trust from dear friends because i truly disagreed with this fiasco of putting this type of politics into practice. i still have people who wont talk to me because i didnt agree with what happened. i spoke up and had three womyn with fingers to my face telling me that i had no say in any of this. the movement i felt we had died the day after that fest. we continued doing the fest and we made some strides to bring back a sense of community but by then it seemed the ties were being broken. the scene went in so many directions.



ruinedbyidiots
06.10.09 - 4:32 pm

reply






Joe Borfo
responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
06.10.09 - 4:33 pm

reply


No. No no no no no no no no. No. I don't have time to address that right now, but I'm going to take time tonight. No.



Ms. Stephanie
responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
06.10.09 - 4:39 pm

reply


nice read.



coldcut
responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
06.10.09 - 4:51 pm

reply


If you are trying to illustrate why there is the need for this, you are doing a bang up job.



theroyalacademy
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 4:52 pm

reply


the book that passage comes from is also a great read.



ruinedbyidiots
responding to a comment by coldcut
06.10.09 - 4:55 pm

reply


I like farting on chynnas.



danya
responding to a comment by imachynna
06.10.09 - 5:00 pm

reply


word!



coldcut
responding to a comment by ruinedbyidiots
06.10.09 - 5:02 pm

reply


HAHAHA when someone types !@#$? homo i hear this





_iJunes
responding to a comment by coldcut
06.10.09 - 5:09 pm

reply


Thanks for the link, it's something all of the 'dudes' should read.

The following quote should sum it up for those that still don't "get it.":

"Give up your male privilege. When I first entered this movement, I didn't understand what it really meant, but as I grew, I understood that we must give up our sense of entitlement. Unlike women, most of us have never faced the challenges of denied access, and when we are turned away by certain sects of feminism, the answer isn't to get upset, but to find other avenues that we are welcomed in, and can help. We don't deserve anything, other than being treated like human beings; and as human beings, we each have our own privileges, so there's no pouting when a less privileged group denies us access."



the reverend dak
responding to a comment by HappyLand
06.10.09 - 5:13 pm

reply


i don't believe in privilege. i believe in true equality.



coldcut
responding to a comment by the reverend dak
06.10.09 - 5:18 pm

reply


to be quite honest, im not a big fan of female only nights. i understand the whole idea of that it will make women more comfortable etc.

but it isnt the gender that makes people uncomfortable, its the individual person.

i just really try not to view gender barriers. i think they just make life harder than it needs to be [ needless complaining about " girls cant be friends with boys" etc. ] view people as people, by their individual merits, personalities and accomplishments, and not by the genders and i think that will generally make everyone happier.

i'm probably the only woman that doesn't really understand women only nights though.
i understand male previledge, but at the same time, pushing feminism doesn't equal it, it just does exactly what male previledge does, but reversed.

sorry im tired, if this doesnt make sense. also, RBI, thanks for posting that, i hadnt read that before and it was super interesting.



tinycities
06.10.09 - 5:40 pm

reply


you're cool!



coldcut
responding to a comment by tinycities
06.10.09 - 5:42 pm

reply


nuh uh, i'm just better.



_iJunes
responding to a comment by coldcut
06.10.09 - 5:43 pm

reply


yes!

+18743324



snowcone
responding to a comment by tinycities
06.10.09 - 5:47 pm

reply


You don't have to believe in it to have it, and you don't know you have it until it gets taken away from you.

Poor ol' snowcone gets his taken away two Tuesdays a month. booo hooo.





the reverend dak
responding to a comment by coldcut
06.10.09 - 5:49 pm

reply


will men be allowed if they really need to work on their bike on one of these days?



Gav
06.10.09 - 5:54 pm

reply


snowcone i wasn't completely agreeing with you.

and ive definitely had situations where i'm treated less than i should so i know what you're saying Dak, but i guesss the idealist in me [ yes its there, well hidden, but there ] just wished the barriers, at least mentally, didnt exist. even if they are there hormonally/literally.



tinycities
06.10.09 - 5:55 pm

reply


nobody is ever agreeing with nobody.



_iJunes
responding to a comment by tinycities
06.10.09 - 5:57 pm

reply


chris colohan (left for dead, the swarm, cursed) : the thing that made that era so unique was also the thing that killed it to death - the overload of dogma in the hands of such a young bunch of people. i dont think any of the things we were all talking about or fighting over were at all stupid or pointless. they were definitely more dramatized than they needed to be, but pointless? never for a minute. its just that no one accounted for time or space in any of it, or the possibility that the area for all that dialogue could itself just not be there one day. and college ended and i think it left a lot of people with nothing else they could do in light of their real lives but to resent it or write it off.



ruinedbyidiots
06.10.09 - 5:58 pm

reply


i just liked and agree what you said... whether or not you agree with me completely

i agree that it's all on an individual basis, and that's a big part of what i've been saying. the problem isn't MEN in general, it's individuals. and i do my best to never be one of those people


give me back my equality dammit!






snowcone
responding to a comment by tinycities
06.10.09 - 6:00 pm

reply


i totally understand where you're coming from but i tend to believe that divisionary and reactionary politics lead us nowhere.

i don't acknowledge my male privilege. i am egalitarian. if others do though, well... that's on them.



coldcut
responding to a comment by the reverend dak
06.10.09 - 6:00 pm

reply


testicles are just two more places for you to hurt.



_iJunes
responding to a comment by coldcut
06.10.09 - 6:01 pm

reply


unless you're debutt. or lance armstrong.



_iJunes
06.10.09 - 6:03 pm

reply


yes. and i try to use my "male privilege" to benefit those who do not have it. i consider it more of my responsibility to use it for good and not evil



snowcone
responding to a comment by coldcut
06.10.09 - 6:06 pm

reply


noblesses oblige? that works well.



danya
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 6:11 pm

reply


mike mowery (good clean fun, phyte records): issues are not black and white. its not so much about the specifics of issues like if yo spelled girl gyrl or woman as womyn. the most important thing is that females are respected, right? people would often get hung up on little rules.



ruinedbyidiots
06.10.09 - 6:16 pm

reply


"yes. and i try to use my "male privilege" to benefit those who do not have it. i consider it more of my responsibility to use it for good and not evil"

This is EXACTLY why the vast majority of the largely male membership of the Bikerowave decided there ought to be a women's night at the Bikerowave.

The great thing about democracy is that the participants get to vote. When the Westside is overrun by female volunteer bike mechanics acting bossy and taking the tools out of guys' hands and doing things for them because "this bit is a little tricky" and generally making men feel awkward, then we can revisit the issue.

Until that glorious (and hilarious) day, however, a women's night a couple of nights a month is OK.





JB
responding to a comment by snowcone
06.10.09 - 6:25 pm

reply


I am torn about this thread. Torn. Like Natalie Imbruglia.

a.) This is not taking anything away from anyone who regularly goes to BikeRoWave. It's a whole new night; all the nights you wanted to go to BikeRoWave before are still there, and you are still welcome to go to them.
b.) I'm a chick. I have never felt excluded. But some aspects of the bike scene *might* keep me from getting involved if I were transgendered. I suspect keeping dudes at bay for one night isn't really for the chicks so much as it is for the transgendered. But I don't know this for sure. My vagina, it is real.
d.) But ... if you need to segregate out the transgendered (&/or the chicks) for their whole own separate special night in order for them — anyone — to feel comfortable in the bike scene, then you're doing it wrong. If you feel there's something wrong with how certain groups of people are treated in the bike scene, change that, & the idea of a separate night won't make sense any more.
e.) But really-really, especially at the BikeRoWave, I don't think it makes sense now. I have felt nothing but support, excitement, and enthusiasm for bikes, for ridazz, for me, and for my various whips, every time I've been to the BikeRoWave.

To coldcut: But I'm not agreeing with you. Reverse-discrimination is bullshit, to be sure, but making sure everyone feels welcome to the culture is, in general, a good and honorable impulse. We who do not feel threatened or uncomfortable in the scene — that is to say, those of us who feel perfectly comfortable in it — should thank our lucky stars, or feel proud for being tough, or something. Meanwhile, if people want to DONATE their time and energy to this, then for crying out loud, let them.

Perhaps it can be used as a litmus test; if the night turns out to be wildly successful, and women and transgendered folk come out of the woodwork to attend every other Tuesday, then maybe we can assess what we as a culture are doing wrong in the scene such that they didn't feel comfortable coming in before. Eh?

To BikeRoWave: Many times have you saved my ass and my whip. You're one of my favorite places in all of Los Angeles. It was y'all that dubbed my old bike the Squeaky Nishiki. And it was y'all that taught me how to make that nickname obsolete. It wasn't even a question when I got the frame I'm working on now, if I would work on it at the BikeRoWave or take it in and have someone else do it. BikeRoWave. Bingo, bango.



katiepoche
06.10.09 - 6:28 pm

reply


"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." -Thomas Jefferson



snowcone
responding to a comment by JB
06.10.09 - 6:32 pm

reply


i like that



snowcone
responding to a comment by katiepoche
06.10.09 - 6:33 pm

reply


great post!



coldcut
responding to a comment by katiepoche
06.10.09 - 9:30 pm

reply


"give me back my equality dammit!"

We'll talk when women aren't kept out of many high paying industries, payed less for equal work and seniority in many places, routinely denied promotions, and when women bicycle commuters make up more than 1/5 of the total riders. If we want to grow the cycling community as I think most of us hear do, the biggest gain is going to be in getting women more involved. Just as many men are often uncomfortable in an environment of only women, so too are many women in an environment of only men. I find it hard to sympathize with males that cry fowl over things like this since we are already advantaged by a patriarchal order.



GarySe7en
06.10.09 - 9:53 pm

reply


I wish I could leave this alone, but I can't.

Snowcone, please stop. No one took your equality away.

I don't care much for all the fuss about women's rights, but do we do deserve an environment that enables us to grow and learn - and what JB said about having tools taken from hands because "this is a little tricky" really does happen, and it really irks me.

And while I don't ever fuss about it, it's true that women are paid less than men in many industries, it's true that girls are generally expected to be bad at sports and fixing things, and expected to be less able in a number of things.

BikeRoBabes is awesome, for everyone. It means that when more girls know more about fixing their bikes, more girls will ride (yay!), more girls will play polo, more girls will commute by bike... I love riding and the L.A. bike scene and the community we have, it overall fosters independence and self-sufficiency through communal actions, like starting the bike co-ops, the rides, and all sorts of other amazingness.

Please appreciate efforts like BikeRoBabes to help the community and ALL of its members thrive. Yes, an event like BikeRoBabes really is about us all.




kryxtanicole
06.10.09 - 10:37 pm

reply


If only boys and girls were required to read Virgina Woolf's A Room of One's Own in the same way girls and boys are required to read J.D. Salinger's Catcher In The Rye.



Ms. Stephanie
06.11.09 - 12:26 am

reply


i'll admit, a monstrous population of men on this planet are conditioned to be sexist and chauvinist, because the elite ruling class is made up mostly of men. that doesn't mean all men are. i'm disagreeing with you on this topic not because my privilege has been taken away, but because i feel like we're falling into the trap by making this night exclusively to one gender. it's a vicious circle of infighting that the ruling class loves, because it keeps us blind.

i understand the need for a space for women to feel comfortable in. but why not make it women preferred/strongly encouraged. if men do show up, why not try to educate them on women's issues instead of shutting them out? if they're respectful they'll most like understand and it would make way more of a positive impact.



coldcut
06.11.09 - 1:02 am

reply


*exclusive, *likely



coldcut
06.11.09 - 1:03 am

reply


I cant believe snowcone trolled this thread to 127 postings.

Yall postin in a troll thread.



angrytoaster30
06.11.09 - 1:14 am

reply


snowcone deserves a golf clap!

I think the thread turned out to be rather insightful. I certainly learned a lot and I certainly questioned what I thought I knew.

I like boys, for the most part. In some situations, I actually feel more comfortable around dudes. I'd classify my sexuality as pretty testosterone driven (After I finish I just want to have a smoke and go to sleep)...I keed I keed I keeeeeeed.

But I do want to say that there was a pretty cool vibe on the first night. A little tense and chaotic at times since it was our first and we had some unexpected encounters, but overall really cool.

And maybe in some ways the night reprogrammed my own thinking...instead of running off to find a boy to help me with my project, I picked up a book and read it and gave it a shot on my own. I'm quite interested in bicycle mechanics and there is no better way to learn than just giving it an uninhibited effort.

Thanks to everyone for your comments, I find them all fascinating, especially as one interested in gender. I hope the ladies will come on out on the 23rd, I hope the lads will continue to be so supportive, and I hope y'all will continue to ride your bikes and share your thoughts.

<3 <3 <3



HappyLand
responding to a comment by angrytoaster30
06.11.09 - 1:39 pm

reply


snowcone, don't make a mess in the women's bathroom when you're done relieving your feelings of exclusion from it.

seriously, dude, let 'em do their thing. you can go to bikerowave every other friggin' night.

i believe i speak for EVERYBODY when i say we want MORE GIRLS ON BIKES.

if this helps that, and i think it will, then i'm all for it.

also, gender inequality exists. do some research.



ephemerae
06.17.09 - 10:00 pm

reply


LOL



TIMESARECHANGING
responding to a comment by ephemerae
06.23.09 - 7:24 pm

reply


Also, this is tonight for another 2.5 hours or so.



JB
responding to a comment by TIMESARECHANGING
06.23.09 - 7:39 pm

reply

Reply


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