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Don is talking about CM specifically, not 'group ride' like the social rides we have. The LAPD feels stressed about 1000+ riders in a group - not 100 or so - and he's got a valid point.
If they LAPD is stressed they don't need to be. It's just a big traffic jam, happens in big cities every day at rush hour, we have one bicycle *rush hour* once a month to encourage people to ride because it's actually fun and healthy and if they felt protected in a big group then they are more inclined to take up cycling and that would enrich their lives.
The best way for LAPD to respond to CM is to simply sit back and wait for it to pass. Don't try to cut in, don't try to single riders out of hundreds for minor tickets (no lights, running lights) when it's not safe to do so, that is just common sense.
And the only time riders 'tap' cars with the palms of thier hands is to simply let them know they are there, it's a safety issue. When I drive I'm grateful for the heads-up.
If a driver is being hostile and cutting in and they get tapped then they are probably going to report it - but they are the instigators - not the riders.
Actually I'm talking about ALL group rides.... Like I say in the vid, In the Netherlands, where mode share is something like 50% of the people travel by bike I was shocked when I asked some locals about starting a Midnight Ridazz thinking it was a slam dunk idea in the bicycle mecca of the world... No one was interested. The basic answer was "we ride everywhere, to work to school, to go shopping, why would need to ride more?"
If I could I would gladly trade all the group rides in Los Angeles for a 50% mode share in Los Angeles. If the LADOT ever excercises its power to change the LA traffic grid accordingly, group rides will melt away... I know the LAPD hates group rides, and so do a lot of people, well here is our common goal. NORMALIZE BIKES as a form of transportation!
I'll let Roadblock speak for himself. But i think the point of his speech is about ALL group bike rides.
And to the degree that we feel inspired to organize and ride these rides so we can have comfort and communion with other cyclists, that impulse will become irrelevant, when riding a bike in L.A. is as normal as riding a bike should be.
Raging oil spills aside, CM has never been the consistently biggest ride in the city. It just has a slightly more confrontational culture (due to media hype) and more a little more likely to antagonize & conflict with cops (in my experience) than most other rides.
But regardless I think the point remains, that the police can make cycling safer by setting an example and taking a softer touch with cyclists.
If LAPD, LADOT, & City Government do their part to make cycling safer, I think they are actually find less people interested in big group rides & much less conflict in general between bikes and cars, as drivers & cyclists become more comfortable with each other and more mutually respectful of each-others space.
I hear the Netherlands argument a lot, and I don't think it applies.
Group social rides and increasing bicycle participation's share of total vehicle miles traveled are two overlapping circles, and one isn't going to replace the other in L.A.
Have you all seen where the Netherlands are on a map? It's North of Belgium and Northeast of Germany.
It's COLD man. Of COURSE they don't want to spend their free time hanging out in snow-covered parks and ice-covered parking lots.
L.A. is a different story. If it's already summer in February and only gets nicer in the coming months, why wouldn't you want to be out exploring the city on a warm night with your friends?
We've just got to get MORE people on bikes, whether they're commuting to work, running errands, or heading out on one of the fun rides to the right.
If the LAPD would support, rather than harass, the CM riders then drivers would follow their example and be more respectful of cyclists in general.
Just last night when I was waiting about 6 inches from a curb for a red light to turn green (on my bike) a sports car drove about 85mph and swerved to get to about ten inches from me. I don't know if he was harassing me or simply trying to 'show off' and get my attention but I was not impressed.
I think some motorists are flat-out terrorizing cyclists for cheap thrills and then they see the cops beating them up for no good reason and you have a recipe for disaster.
I do kind of think it interesting that in the selection of videos I watched from this event, no one really brought up directly, that We Are Traffic.
One of LAPD's biggest issues with us is that we "interrupt the flow of traffic," this was clear from the radio traffic that was posted in the thread from the video about last cm. But we are traffic. I was kind of sad to see no one bringing this up, instead talking as if we are a separate group. We are road users, we are part of the traffic flow. This is a large part of the education toward both LAPD and toward normal motorists. This is a great talking point for things like this, and it's easy to remember, a reason CM's all over the world have been using those three words for years. We Are Traffic.
Also, as to the group rides melting away, well in a sense they would in the scenario that Roadbock is describing.
They would melt away as an entity, instead becoming more obviously what they are, a knot of traffic in the ordinary flow. Instead of sticking out like a sore thumb (which the LAPD likes to label a "disturbance") it would just be a denser group in the normal flow, sort of like when traffic gets heavy naturally, it doesn't mean that the social part of what we do would be any different, it just means that as a group, the visibility diminishes into the normal. The group part of the ride becomes more invisible as we would be a part of the normal fabric of day to day transportation.
I am having cognitive dissonance on the connection between group rides and the lack of support and bicycle infrastructure. To me it seems like MR and group rides are just more than the aspect of safety and infrastructure. Group rides are a fun way to socialize and meet new people. Group rides introduce people to new parts of the city to enjoy how diverse Los Angeles is.
So to me, to say if we had better city support and better infrastructure that group rides would go away is not giving credit to what you have helped create.
I am not trying to be a contrarian or troll this thread, I just wanted to say that I think that group rides are here for many aspects and not just to be safe and ask for better bike facilities.
Foldie responding to a comment by trickmilla
06.4.10 - 2:43 pm
LA Critical Mass is far less confrontational and militant than San Francisco Critical Mass. In LA it is more a celebration and enjoyment ride than anything else. There are no political speeches or militant dressed-in-black anarchists roaming around passing out flyers or people trying to sell Revolutionary Worker newspapers. So it kind of comes as a groin kick that LAPD cracked down on them so hard.
Bicyclists in LA are much more mellow and a little gunshy when it comes to riding in the street. I agree that if LA had better bicycling infrastructure, a better bicycle policy and more people felt comfortable and safe riding a bicycle on the streets, there would be no need for Critical Mass or group rides. Since everyone would be riding anyway.
Someone started a thread about how to change Critical Mass. I think that might be the wrong way to approach this issue. The question should be, how can we change the City of LA to be more bicycle-friendly? To better accommodate the thousands of bicyclists who ride out there and the thousands more who would want to ride, if it were safe. If that changes, Critical Mass will no longer be an issue or a problem.
I became an MR addict because MR was the first time I rode my bike in L.A. freely.
It was the first time I rode a bike in L.A. and thought only of riding and enjoying the city.
I got completely addicted for the next several months.
Now that I feel more comfortable on my bike, and have no problem riding late at night by myself 1/2 way across town, going out on a big ride is much less of a priority to me.
The social side is delightful and irreplaceable, but all sub-cultures are transient especially sub-cultures that are built around fixing a social injustice.
I'm sure that there has been social bike rides of groups of friends for the last 100 years in L.A. & there will be for the next 100 I suppose.
But the vibrant scene we currently have is in direct relation to an undercurrent of change that compels many of us to group up and ride together loud and proud.
We are currently in 2 oil wars and in the middle of the largest oil catastrophe in our lifetimes. When the next petrol disaster happens, when the next bike tragedy happens, when the next war for energy happens, there will be another bike surge.
However, if we do our jobs, and fix this city, the glut of social bike rides we are now seeing will someday seem quaint. I can't wait!
No one was interested. The basic answer was "we ride everywhere, to work to school, to go shopping, why would need to ride more?"
You know, I feel ya, but I still think it's silly of them. It's like, what if I called a couple of friends, or a special lady friend, and suggested taking a nice long stroll on Saturday night and the response was "I walk everywhere, why would I want to walk more?" It's just...different.
PC responding to a comment by Roadblock
06.4.10 - 3:25 pm
PC, that was my take. Sometimes don't you just want to get out and pedal for the sake of pedaling? I don't think that desire will want to go away. Drivers sometimes go out "cruising". But two or three people riding together or you with your lady friend is a lot different than 30+ or 500+ group of cyclists. Besides, clubs will still hold training rides. I don't think you'll see the end of social riding, but you will see a decrease or end to group rides.
PC you make a good argument but like danceralamode said, there will still be social group rides they just won't be massive. In the Netherlands I saw plenty of groups of people riding at night. 5-10 at the most...
socializing won't go away, it will just be more spontaneous and utilitarian... bikes will be the method to get you to the destination, not the destination itself.
to my surprise Not in my experience. Have you actually been on SF critical mass? I have a few time in the last few years and to my surprise they are much more docile. Why? Because SFPD escorts the ride, they cork they ride on bikes along with the ride... There are no teenagers riding on the wrong side of the road playing chicken with cars, I didnt hear anyone yell fuck the pigs, I didnt see a circle of death... It was pretty calm at least in my experiences. sure there are probably dudes dressed in black passing out anarchy literature but that's no threat to anyone especially SFPD. Capitalism is NOT going anywhere no one is scared of that happening. LAPD hates CM because individuals - usually teenagers- do stupid shit ie playing chicken with the opposing lane of traffic and the circle of death which prefaced the brutality on Friday, is also not going to make the cops happy.
Of course that being said the is NO excuse for cops to kick people or ram their cars into the mass. I'm glad Manny got that on video. They need to calm down.
Roadblock responding to a comment by 328rides4ever
06.4.10 - 7:57 pm
Well, you may have a point there. I just re-watched We Are Traffic on youtube and they clearly explain that corking happens when the bikes "reach a critical mass and so the goal is to keep the ride together".
Now. I noticed that this does not happen in LA. Lots of riders ride really fast leaving an entire portion of the ride behind with many stragglers in between. It's not fair to cork the intersection for stragglers, when the ride breaks up it's important to stop, wait for the 'critical mass of riders to collect at the intersection' and then proceed as a group.
Also, keeping in mind it's not a race, it's a ride, may be helpful too. Try to be mindful of who is behind you and how many, slow down, let them catch up to create a critical mass prior to intersection corking.
Also, the idea is supposed to be a fun celebration and inviting motorists to ride with us, not harassing motorists or yelling at police.
Yelling at the LAPD is counter productive, we need them to enforce laws which protect cyclists, calling them names is inciting them to be violent towards us (last CM ride) and drivers take their cue on how to treat us from the LAPD. Not good.
Adult riders should be much more proactive in asking disrespectful riders to leave the ride. Period.
It's all right here, We Are Traffic documentary http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=189314458200750949#
yeah, I've heard about the early crit mass rides having a militant edge to them, but I guess once the popo gave in and escorted the ride they got fairly peaceful....
Roadblock responding to a comment by 328rides4ever
06.4.10 - 9:55 pm
I don't know what that guy said I was distracted by the striking presence of Stephen Box coming in and out of the doorway. Whatever he said he should just move to Amsterdam already.
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